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Topic: "MISSING" Cornelius George Lawrence.....UPDATED and none the wiser (Read 2611 times)
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caroline hammill
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1106
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Hi Tiffy, i have no idea which Charlotte was a witness at Cornelius George Lawrence wedding, His Grandmother was still alive at the time, so it could have been her or his Aunt.
Think i'll wait till next month to see if i can get what looks like his 2nd marraige to an Eliza Pearce (his neighbours wife on one census !!!!!) see if he has a father down on that and who the witnesses are.
Thank you all for helping with this.
CAZ 
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DEVON : Gillard,Horn,Powlesland,Cooper,Crocker,Mallett,Branch
GLOUCESTERSHIRE : Hanks,Pratt,Bowen,Hall,Compton,Lawrence,Morris,Williams, Izard,Dancey,Derrett
WORCESTERSHIRE : James, Wheatcroft
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Tiffy
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 20
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Caz, just typed a load of stuff and lost it!!! briefly, you stated Charlotte and James Arundell as witnesses to Cornelious marriage.
Matilda, who does not seem to be around whatever I do - if she was not at wedding, then Charlotte Jnr or Snr, whichever witnessed might have come clean for this purpose, as there was no embarrassment to Matilda! If Cornelius married in his own parish, it might have been risky to name somebody who was NOT his father. It looks very suspicious that he is registered LAWRENCE the same surname as Matilda and YET his father is stated as LAWRENCE although Matilda is still a single Lawrence. However, I don't know if people had to produce their birth certificates as proof of age in those days, and if they did, they would have seen that his father was not on the certificate, but how you could check as to what the procedure was before banns I don't know
Look forward to hearing when you get 2nd marriage cert
regards
Almost exhausted
Tiffy
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Cawley(sidmouth)Capon(mile end) Forty(gloucester/london)Lewis(wherwell/leatherhead)Walstow(nottingham/plumstead/woolwich
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Valda
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9726
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I have plenty examples of marriages later and earlier where people are giving incorrect information on their marriages about all the things I have stated. I even have an example of a woman who married bigamously in 1910. Deserted by her husband who had run off and with no hope of affording a divorce she married in the name of her younger sister - (who married later the same year). The woman married out of area, to a man who knew she was marrying bigamously, but because of his job they had to marry, they couldn't just live together as man and wife (this was all known by the family and remembered today, but I also have the certificate with the evidence). In the man's job it would have been necessary at the time for him to lead a decent and upstanding life and be seen to be 'legally' married. His job - he was a Metropolitan police office!!
I think it exceedingly unlikely that Cornelius would dream of naming a father who anyone could construe as being his father through an incestuous relationship - who would admit to that in front of their in laws to be?! You would surely go for the most face saving option on the day - hiding your illegitimacy.
A marriage ususally took place in the woman's parish not the man's. Even if it was Cornelius's parish at the time it wasn't necessarily the same parish in Cheltenham he was born in, or if it was, even the same vicar. A large town is not the same as a village were the vicar knew everyone's business whether they attended his church or not and this was 21 years later.
In 1869 though it was a legal requirement to register births, there was no punishment for not doing so. That didn't happen until 1875. In 1869 a large proportion of those marrying may not have had a birth certificate, either because they were born before July 1837 or their births had never been registered (or it was well lost and they were not sure in what district it had been registered in the first place). Some may have been born abroad. Others would have to have tried to find where their baptism had taken place as their only proof, if they had all been required to produce some evidence of their birth to marry. How likely would it be that people could all produce this documentation in 1869? Even if they could how could you prove it was their birth certificate or their baptismal record and not somebody else's?
I'm not sure Ann would quite see it the same way as a more modern day interpretation may see it, that of giving her daughter away to others in the family. Extended families didn't quite work like that. Clara slept at her aunts' home (do remember the census only picks up who slept there that night not who lived there day in day out) so it is possible on that first census (1871) that is what she was doing, sleeping there that night, before leaving her own home as a younger woman to get out from under her mother's feet and live permanently with her favourite aunts - possibly as a support for them as they got older. Even if as a young child she was sleeping at her aunt's home for whatever reason, she was likely to be in and out of her parent's home as well.
Regards
Valda
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caroline hammill
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1106
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Hi Valda, thanks for the info, im trying to take on board what you're saying, its not easy when you've got a telly blaring in one ear and a son in the other all whilst the hubby just lies there on the settee !!!!!
Next month i'll order Cornelius's second marraige cert and see what it says on there for father.
CAZ 
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DEVON : Gillard,Horn,Powlesland,Cooper,Crocker,Mallett,Branch
GLOUCESTERSHIRE : Hanks,Pratt,Bowen,Hall,Compton,Lawrence,Morris,Williams, Izard,Dancey,Derrett
WORCESTERSHIRE : James, Wheatcroft
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caroline hammill
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1106
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Hi ya Tiffy,
I've not had the money this month to get hs 2nd marraige certificate, so none the wiser if his dad is unknown (blank on Birth Cert) or William (stated on 1st Marraige Cert).
If i get the money to order his cert i'll definately let you know, im definately going to get it, cant wait to see what it says for Father on this Cert !!!!
CAZ
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DEVON : Gillard,Horn,Powlesland,Cooper,Crocker,Mallett,Branch
GLOUCESTERSHIRE : Hanks,Pratt,Bowen,Hall,Compton,Lawrence,Morris,Williams, Izard,Dancey,Derrett
WORCESTERSHIRE : James, Wheatcroft
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caroline hammill
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1106
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Morning Tiffy,
Just to let you know that i have ordered the marraige cert for Cornelius George Lawrence & Eliza Pearce (his 2nd marraige).
Despatch date is 3rd March.
I'll let you know the outcome of his Father/No Father on this cert. 
CAZ
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DEVON : Gillard,Horn,Powlesland,Cooper,Crocker,Mallett,Branch
GLOUCESTERSHIRE : Hanks,Pratt,Bowen,Hall,Compton,Lawrence,Morris,Williams, Izard,Dancey,Derrett
WORCESTERSHIRE : James, Wheatcroft
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caroline hammill
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1106
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Morning Lynne,
just to let you know that im still waiting for the Marraige cert to turn up.
I keep standing in the front window watching for the postie, trying to see if he has a nice large white envelope coming my way......but NO, not yet.
It'd had better shed some light as to who his father could be after this long wait, just my luck its going to have a different fathers name to whats on his 1st marraige cert or blank like his birth cert... 
CAZ
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DEVON : Gillard,Horn,Powlesland,Cooper,Crocker,Mallett,Branch
GLOUCESTERSHIRE : Hanks,Pratt,Bowen,Hall,Compton,Lawrence,Morris,Williams, Izard,Dancey,Derrett
WORCESTERSHIRE : James, Wheatcroft
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caroline hammill
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1106
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You wana see how many female rellies i have in my tree having kids out of wedlock, 1 woman had 2 and sent them to Barnardos kids home, 1 of the boys was then sent to Australia, he's still alive today.
I've laughed at how people go on about women today having kids before marraige, i often wonder if they've researched their family tree before......they might be in for a shock....ha ha ha
I'll let you know the outcome of George's Marraige Cert when/if it arrives.
CAZ
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DEVON : Gillard,Horn,Powlesland,Cooper,Crocker,Mallett,Branch
GLOUCESTERSHIRE : Hanks,Pratt,Bowen,Hall,Compton,Lawrence,Morris,Williams, Izard,Dancey,Derrett
WORCESTERSHIRE : James, Wheatcroft
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caroline hammill
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1106
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Morning Lynne
Well i got the 2nd Marraige cert this morning for George Cornelius Lawrence and the worst thing that i could think off has happened................he has a different name for his Father on this cert !!!!!!!!!!!
On this certificate his fathers name is "George Lawrence" Deceased....Occupation : Miller.
SO...on his Birth cert there is no Father mentioned.
On his 1st Marraige cert his Father is William Lawrence...Occupation : Labourer.
On his 2nd Marraige cert his Father is George Lawrence...Occupation : Miller.
I think i'll go along with what Valda said somewhere in this thread.....he did'nt know his Father and he just mentioned any name for the Marraiges to save face of not knowing who his father was... 
Unless i can find a William George...OR...George William Lawrence........but i think its unlikely.
CAZ 
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DEVON : Gillard,Horn,Powlesland,Cooper,Crocker,Mallett,Branch
GLOUCESTERSHIRE : Hanks,Pratt,Bowen,Hall,Compton,Lawrence,Morris,Williams, Izard,Dancey,Derrett
WORCESTERSHIRE : James, Wheatcroft
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Arranroots
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10929
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Hi Caz!
Still reading the thread!!
Do the other details on this new cert match what you were expecting? And are the witnesses folk that you can identify?
If yes to all the above, then i think a bit of imagination was being used!!
A 
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS WIL: WEBB, SALTER RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK) |
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caroline hammill
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1106
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Morning Arranroots
The only details that are on this 2nd Marraige Cert that i was expecting are the names of the married couple...ha ha ha
I was hoping in a way that the Father for Cornelius was left blank....like his Birth cert !! instead it gives a different fathers name on this marraige cert to Cornelius' 1st Marraige cert.
As for the Witnesses, i have no idea who they are : Charles Cooke & Alice Cooke, i dont have those names in my tree.
Cornelius & Eliza married on 13/9/1899 at the Register Office in Cheltenham, Glos.
So this Marraige cert has'nt helped me at all in finding who Cornelius' father was, just baffled me even more.
CAZ
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DEVON : Gillard,Horn,Powlesland,Cooper,Crocker,Mallett,Branch
GLOUCESTERSHIRE : Hanks,Pratt,Bowen,Hall,Compton,Lawrence,Morris,Williams, Izard,Dancey,Derrett
WORCESTERSHIRE : James, Wheatcroft
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Pages: 1 2 [3] 4
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