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Topic: Help with Glossop Mystery (Read 198 times)
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Jan Tivey
RootsChat Aristocrat
 Offline
Posts: 1277
I Know,If I Get to the Core then Answers R There!
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Hiyall 
I have a bit of a mystery that I need help with. I am carrying out a one name study working with notes from another researcher (now deceased) who was pretty accurate in his findings so far (his work was carried out in the 1960's & 70's - no internet then!)
Twin brothers John & Joseph Tivey christened 08 March 1829 at All Saints church Derby. Sons of Edward Tivey and Martha Ball.
John was with his parents in 1841 HO107/185 Folio: 8 Page: 9
I cannot find him in the 1851 census (another mystery!) he was a Stone Mason by Trade as was his father Edward and twin Joseph.
In 1852 he married Mary Doxon or Raworth (from the Lancashire BMD site ~ she was probably a widow but I haven't worked that one out yet!) two children followed
Mystery 1 ~ they had a daughter Alice Tivey born abt 1852 Glossop ~ I found a christening for her in Glossop 01 May 1853 Glossop but nothing at all on the GRO 
Then they had a son Joseph Edward Tivey born 1856 died 1861 both on the GRO
Mary died in 1857 and John remarried to Catherine ?? the couple are in Durham 1861 RG9/3717; Folio: 33; Page: 18. Alice is with her Aunt Harriet Tivey, Joseph his son had recently died.
Joseph, John's twin was thought to have died in 1859, unmarried (according to the other researcher) BUT whilst searching for Alice's birth/christening in the same batch number in Glossop I found the Christening of a James Rowbottom Tivey 19 Sep 1852 Glossop son of Joseph Tivey and Ellen Batty. Joseph was with his widowed father in 1851 HO107/2152; Folio: 114; Page: 38. Yet by Sept 1852 he seems to have married and be a father.
Mystery No2 ~ I cannot find a marriage for Joseph to Ellen nor a GRO reference for James Rowbottom Tivey.
Joseph was said to have died by 1859 BUT I cannot find his wife Ellen or his son James in 1861 nor another marriage for her.
Can anyone help with this one  There seems to be no GRO references for my Tiveys in 1852, yet there is evidence of them in Glossop Parish records 
Cheers 
Jan
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Logged
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk TIVEY, WILDE, Alker, Barmore, Birchall, Bird, Bryan, Chant, Clare, Crump, Dow, Edwards, Fairbrother, Faulkner, Frearson, Frogson, Glew, Halliday, Heathcote, Hesford, Holliday, Jones, Knight, Massey, Mather, McKenna, Mee, Melling, Neal, O'Brien, Ottewell, Pimblett, Pinks, Price, Quinn, Rampling, Richards, Richardson, Rowley, Royle, Shakespeare, Shaw, Sheldon, Tandy, Thompson, Wade, Walker, & more! |
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Annette7
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 315
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Can continue on from Heywoods findings.
I don't think that Ellen Batty and Joseph Tivey were married - as you say there is no birth entry for James Rowbottom Tivey but there is one for James Rowbottom Batty in Jun.qtr. 1852 Stockport, Cheshire. The Ellen Batty b. Hyde married a James Dumphey at Ashton under Lyne 1859 (I think, forgot to note year) and on 1861 Census they are in Derbyshire:
1861 Whitfield, Derbyshire
James Dumphy 25 Calico Printer b. Ramsbottom, Lancs.
Ellen Dumphy 29 Cotton Winder b. Hyde, Cheshire
James Batty son 9 scholar ditto
Elizabeth Bancroft aunt
+ 2 lodgers
Cannot find marriage for John to Catherine - noted she was born Scotland and checked there too but no joy.
Annette
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Logged
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Scopes (One-Name Study - Worldwide) Suffolk - Grist, Knights, Bullenthorpe, Watcham Scotland - Spence, Horne, Cowan, Moffat London - Monk Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Just walk beside me and be my friend. Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Jan Tivey
RootsChat Aristocrat
Offline
Posts: 1277
I Know,If I Get to the Core then Answers R There!
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WOW!! 
Thanks to you both ~ I will check this out immediately then.
I wonder if Joseph was the father and named on the christening so that he would have to provide for his son although they werent married, naughty boy! I think I read somewhere that if the father wasnt named, the mother could apply for poor relief from the parish if she couldnt look after her child UNLESS she named the father who would then be responsible for the illegitimate child's upkeep.
Needs more investigating
Thanks!
Jan
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Logged
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk TIVEY, WILDE, Alker, Barmore, Birchall, Bird, Bryan, Chant, Clare, Crump, Dow, Edwards, Fairbrother, Faulkner, Frearson, Frogson, Glew, Halliday, Heathcote, Hesford, Holliday, Jones, Knight, Massey, Mather, McKenna, Mee, Melling, Neal, O'Brien, Ottewell, Pimblett, Pinks, Price, Quinn, Rampling, Richards, Richardson, Rowley, Royle, Shakespeare, Shaw, Sheldon, Tandy, Thompson, Wade, Walker, & more! |
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