|
Pages: [1] 2
|
 |
|
Author
|
Topic: Peter Gordon of Kirkpatrick Fleming, 1801 (Read 538 times)
|
DJH
RootsChat Member
 Offline
Posts: 153
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hello,
My Gt Gt Grandfather, Peter Gordon, was born at Kirkpatrick Fleming about 1801. I can find him in the 1851 Census when he was still living there, at Grahamshill Cottages. He was an agricultural labourer. I am trying to find his parents but I am unable to find a birth certificate or Baptismal record. He married Elizabeth Minto of Hoddam.
Is there anyone who could look at the local parish records for me please?
Thank you,
Pauline.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 17497
|
Hi Pauline
There's no record of a baptism on Scotlands People which have all the available parish records. I've looked for a death post-1854 (which would give his parents) but so far nothing. Is 1851 the last census that you have him on?
Regards
Gadget
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
morskaj
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 5
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
I have the same problem. Peter Gordon is my husband's GGGgrandfather. I too have the 1851 census where he is 50 years old, so born 1800/1 in Kirkpatrick Fleming, on his son's marriage certificate in 1859 he is deceased, his wife is Elizabeth Minto 40, born Hoddam. I have been on Scotland's people and can find nothing at all. I wondered if he had another christian name but used Peter (?). I am going to try to get to Dumfries records office at some time to see if I can find anything, but it could be that he wasn't born in Kirkpatrick Fleming but this is the first place he remembers living.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 17497
|
Welcome to Rootschat Morskaj 
The following Gordons were having children in Kirkpatrick Fleming 1791-1810:
James Gordon and Margaret Irving
Francis Gordon and Jean Park Richardson
Francis Gordon and Helen Holliday
William Gordon and Mary Crone
Charles Gordon and Catherine Thomson
Do any of these names crop up in his children?
Gadget
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
DJH
RootsChat Member
Offline
Posts: 153
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hello, Gadget, and thank you for your very helpful information.
I'm inclined to go for James Gordon and Margaret Irving as Peter's parents since he called his second son James and used none of the other names for his sons. Is this a sensible decision?!!
Peter was first of all a ploughman if that has any connection with the James mentioned.
And, yes, Peter died between 1851 and 1861
Again, many thanks. Pauline
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
DJH
RootsChat Member
Offline
Posts: 153
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hello Morskaj
I'm convinced Peter is from Kirkpatrick Fleming. Which of his sons is your husband descended from- Thomas, James or Robert? I'm from Robert, the youngest.
James is the only name in the list of possible parents posted by Gadget that has a connection so I'm thinking our answer lies with this couple, especially as the only sister of the above brothers is called Margaret.
What do you think?
Pauline
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
DJH
RootsChat Member
Offline
Posts: 153
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Dear Gadget
I've just realized that the only sister of Robert was called Margaret so this convinces me even more that James Gordon and Margaret Irving are the parents. Please, have you anything more about them?
Pauline
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Reiver
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 339
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
|
From the 1841 Census for Kirkpatrick Fleming - per Ann Hill Bequest transcription -
At Kirkhill -( within KFL)
Peter Gordon age 40 Ag. Lab, Day
Elizabeth -do- age 30
Bella -do- age 10
Marjory -do- age 8
Mary -do- age 7
William -do- age 5
Thomas -do- age 3
James Bell -do- age 1
All were born in Dumfriesshire.
Does this add anything?
Reiver
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Reiver
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 339
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
|
One further source that may be worth following up. It would appear that Peter died before 1855. The transcription of the KFL memorials was done in the 1960s and copies are available in several libraries - Ewart, Dumfries; Annan? and Lockerbie?.
It is well indexed in some detail. The index includes the age and often a relationship to others on the memorial. Whether it would be possible to do a quick look up if anyone is passing near Lockerbie or Annan, I don't know Unfortunately I do not collect Gordons
Because Peter died before 1855 it is more likely that he would be included in the KFL transcriptions than not. Other provisos of course
Regards
Reiver
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
DJH
RootsChat Member
Offline
Posts: 153
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hello, Reiver. Many thanks for this information. It is the family I'm researching but with far more children than recorded in the 1851 census, by which time my relative was born.
I'm now undecided as to whether Peter's parents were called James Gordon and Margaret Irving or William Gordon and Mary Crone as there are children with all these first names!!!!
Can you please tell me what The Ann Hill Bequest transcrpition is ?
Thanks,
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
morskaj
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 5
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Thanks for the welcome, :-).
My husband is decended from Peter's son William, which gives another possibility of parentage!! William married Jane Clow in Middlebie in 1859 which is where Peter is listed as deceased. I have been to Dornock cemetery and found the gravestone of Jane Clow wife of William Gordon (blacksmith) died aged 64 on 21-5-01, also son Thomas 29, died 17-19-05 and William 81 died on 20-11-1915.
Now it gets strange. In the 1891 census William is listed with his wife Jane and children John, Thomas, Margaret, Peter and James, all living in Dornock, but William and Jane are both 53, which means his age could not be 81 in 1915. Jane however is 64 when she dies in 1901 so that would fit, but again Thomas dosen't as he is 19 in 1891 and 29 in 1905. There is another couple William and Jane in the 1861/71 census where William and Jane are 30 and 31, them 40 and 41 respectively. They have children Robert 8, Elizabeth 6, Mary 4 and Georgina 2 in 1861 and Thomas 8, George 6, Janet 4 and Jane 10 months in 1871. He also is listed as a blacksmith in Gretna. This is obviously too far out to be them. This Jane was possibly Glendinning.
There is yet another William and Jane Gordon in 1881 in Cumberland, William is born Gretna and is a farmer of 57 acres, some of the children in their family seem to correspond with the ones in the 1861/1871 census in Scotland so maybe they moved to Cumberland.
My husband is decended from William's daughter Elizabeth, born 16-02-1862, she married William Forster born Walton, Cumberland in 1860, he was a farmhand and later a police constable. Elizabeth died in Frizington aged 46 in January, 1909. Two of Elizabeth's grand-daughters are still alive, both 81, one of these visited Eastriggs a few years ago and a Peter Gordon was still living in 'The old Smithy'. They remember that William and all his sons were blacksmiths, which fits with the 1891 census as all the sons are blacksmiths apprentices. One of these have a 'sampler' sewn by Elizabeth at Dornock school in 1878! She also has a black edged card giving the date of Williams funeral on 20-11-1915, so I know this was the correct gravestone. This card was sent by his son William so there was also a son William who, as yet, I have not found either. They seem to think that there was only one daughter, Elizabeth, however I too have found Margaret born 5-03-1874 so there must have been two daughters. (Also we have another Margaret!!).
There were also gravestones in Dornock cemetery for a James Gordon, Lowthertown, died 6-5-1942 aged 84, he lived at 'The old Smithy' so this is possibly another son, this was a worn stone and the wife was listed as Margaret A Rom.. (this is the bit that was worn), died 15-05-1965 aged 81, and a David Edgar died 11-1-1947 aged 74 and his wife Margaret Gordon died 27-4-1955 aged 81, both Lowthertown.
When one of the grand-daughters visited Eastriggs a few years ago there was still a Peter Gordon living at the old smithy, they had had a clear out two weeks before she visited and thrown away the family bible!!! There is still a coping stone at the back of the house with a 'G' carved into it.
Hope some of this helps you all, Morskaj.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
DJH
RootsChat Member
Offline
Posts: 153
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
For Morskaj
All the place names you mention turn up in our family history -Middlebie, Lowthertown, Eastriggs - and we also have a strong Forster connection. Folks on the border just didn't travel far!!!
I hope you've seen the very useful info. sent by Reiver and how the family both shrank and grew between the censuses. William was Robert's oldest brother and had left home by the time Robert comes on a census. All the time I'm researching I'm travelling around The Borders and wish I was there.
I wonder if you have come across my Robert's wife, Mary Agnes Bell Ewart who seems to have many variations of her name. These two did move to Carlisle.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
morskaj
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 5
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
If you want to see how close all these places are to each other, - in some cases literally yards apart - go to Google and click on 'maps' . Annan, Eastriggs and Dornock are all in a row, and Lowthertown is at the rear of Eastriggs. I live in Carlisle so I have driven through them, but we went on the A75 to return and they have cut off the road to Lowthertown, so we could see it but could not access it, we should have gone back the way we came and turned through Eastriggs. Never mind we will go that way next time we find time to go. Do you know when Mary Agnes was born?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
morskaj
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 5
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hello again, yes I've found them.
1881.
2, Mitre Court, Caldewgate, Carlisle.
Robert, 34, Carter.
Mary A. 29,
John E. 8
Peter 5
Elizabeth 3
Agnes 1
There are also two boarders living with them.
Check it out on familysearch.org. Enter Robert Gordon born 1847.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
DJH
RootsChat Member
Offline
Posts: 153
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
That's the family.
I'm Carlisle born and bred but now only visit once or twice a year and a year ago I did spend a day looking at all the villages, so they are in my head.
I've got an Agnes Bell Ewart born Middlebie and a Mary Agnes Bell but they don't seem to match, a bit like your age problem.
I'm new to this Roots Chat but it's very good!!!!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2
|
|
|
|
|
