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Topic: Age at Baptism (Read 1100 times)
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Elaine168
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 82
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I have been looking through Baptisms at St Patrick's Colleyhurst today. My gx 2 grandfather William Hodson, appears to have been baptised on March 5 1837 having been born on March 4. I assumed he had been baptised as an emergency, ie not expected to live.
Then I looked at his sister's record, Alice, she was born March 6 1835 and baptised on March 8.
Does anyone know why there was this haste?
A further factor could be that their father Hugh Hodson was not a Catholic but his wife Mary Worton was. All the surnames are mis spelt. Might it be possible that someone alse presented the baby for baptism and did so quickly before poor Hugh could arrange an Anglican baptism? Or am I way off beam?? Can't imagine Mary was able to leave her bed and charge off to church with the child!
Any comments gratefully received.
Elaine
Elaine
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Hodson, Dearden, Croft, Redman, Mather (all in Lancs), Davies (Salop) Murphy, Daly, Worton (Ireland)
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willow154
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3157
Mum - Such love
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Elaine,
I can only speak from the reasearch I've done myself, but many of the baptisms of the family I'm researching were just two or three days after birth (High Pavement Chapel, Nottingham).
The babies who were too sick, and not expected to live had 'baptised privately' by their baptisms.
Now I know non-conformist situations were slightly different, and although some early non-conformists were not always buried in anglican churchyards, many were. So the following applies, to anglicans and most of the others, too:
From book on baptisms:
Baptism mattered far more to most of our ancestors than it does to many people today because most clergymen would not permit an unbaptised person(including a new-born infant) to be buried in consecrated ground. Great efforts were therefore made to ensure that babies were baptised as soon as possible, especially if there was a likelihood that they would not survive. Baptism by a minister was preferable, but, in an emergency, a private baptism could be performed by the midwife or any other "competent person".
However, not all cases followed this. Some parents had their children baptised in a group, at a later date. But this probably does not apply in the case you are talking about, and I think my post is probably long enough already! 
Hope this helps a little.
Kind regards,
Paulene.
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toni*
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 8699
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I also remember from my childhood women being 'churched' after chidbirth and didn't socialize until they had been.
Elaine
yes i remember that too
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Spinal Muscular Atrophy -SMA is a neuromuscular condition causing weakness of the muscles. SMA is the biggest genetic killer of children under the age of 2 yrs 1 in 40 of you carry the gene that passes this conditon on There is no current treatment http://www.jtsma.org.uk/http://www.petitiontocuresma.com/NOTHING IS AS IT SEEMS Holman & Vinton- Cornwall, Wojciechowskyj & Hussak- Bukowiec & Zahutyn, Bentley & Richards- Leicester, Taylor-Kent/Sussex Punnett-Sussex, Bear- Monkleigh |
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Aulus
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 988
The black sheep: Florence Stevenson née Hampson
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"churched" 
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Lancashire: Stevenson, Wild, Holden, Jepson Worcs/Staffs: Steventon, Smith East London & Suffolk: Guest, Scrutton East London: Palfreman (prev Tyneside), Bissell, Collis, Dearlove, Ettridge Herts: Camac, Collis, Mason, Dorrington, Siggens Marylebone & Sussex: Cole London & Huntingdonshire: Freeman Bowland: Marsden, Noble Shropshire: Guest Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Canuc
RootsChat Member
Posts: 214
Sgt John William Hetherington 1866-1934
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Churched:
You have to go back to your Adam and Eve story. Women became "unclean" as a result. I think also there is some superstition to do with menstruation (did you ever see the film Carrie, her mad mother made her go through some quasi religious ritual when the poor girl first menstruated, in the shower after games).
Then you get the virgin birth issues and all tied up in Medieval ignorance (when one understands what the Muslim scholars knew about the body at that same time period the Catholic church does not come out in a favorable light)
The churching bit was originally a purification rite.
My Missal says it is a ceremony of thanksgiving and blessing for the safe delivery of a child. Child birth being a risky business even as recently as fifty/sixty years ago.
Does that help?
Canuc
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Hetherington (William - born England Aprox 1834 Salford, Cabinet Maker, died Dublin - Father also William born Ireland),
Wilson, Wright, Morely, Morris (Jewish blood and a name change in there somewhere, but who and when?)
James, Driscoll, Collins, Murphy (all end up in Ireland far too quickly)
Sewell (Bexley, Kent)
Harrison, Higginson, Mitchell - Sussex
Tench, Ireland
Hogg,
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willow154
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3157
Mum - Such love
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Hi everyone,
Strange that this should come up, as I only read this a few days ago:
"Blood is of the utmost significance in Israel and is the symbol of life. So anything to do with loss of blood, such as giving birth, provokes a cautious reaction. By declaring new mothers 'ceremonially unclean' these regulations aren't saying that sex is dirty, but rather that women need protection before they can resume their normal place in society".
Just another interpretation.
Hope it helps,
kind regards,
Paulene.
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Elaine168
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 82
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi All
Growing up in the 50's in Salford, I can remember neighbours having baibies and then saying to my Mum, 'No I won't come in, ( to the house) I haven't been churched yet'
I would have been ayoung girl at that time, about 8 or 9. So about 1960. My Mum explained this to me in terms of women going to church after child birth to give thanksgiving for a safe delivery.
I raise this notion vis a vie the question about baptism. Surely mothers of day old children would not have been rushing them off to church for immediate baptism, ESPECIALLY given the notion of churching.
So who took these children away to be baptised? Godmothers perhaps??
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Hodson, Dearden, Croft, Redman, Mather (all in Lancs), Davies (Salop) Murphy, Daly, Worton (Ireland)
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willow154
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3157
Mum - Such love
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Hi again,
Could have been the God Sibs.
I'll tell you more in a few minutes, just have to do a few replies, sorry.
Paulene
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willow154
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3157
Mum - Such love
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Ok back - if anyone is still there
We recently has gentleman who came to do a talk at our family history group. He was a lecturer at one of the universities, and his research was all on births and baptism, and birthing. He was very interesting and very entertaining. Fortunately someone typed up all the notes and I have them here in front of me.
Trouble is it could keep us going all night!
God sib - their job was to make sure all was done correctly as it says in the Bible
Talk was called Birth and Baptism in the 1800s by the way.
Paulene
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« Last Edit: Thursday 10 April 08 21:47 UTC (UK) by willow154 »
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willow154
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3157
Mum - Such love
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Apparently as soon as the baby was born it was taken from the mother and midwife and given to certain ladies who had good-standing in the village. These were known as the Siblings of God... God Sibs.
It was their job to make sure the mother experienced pain/sorrow.
They were sympathetic, and brought news of village life to the confined mother, they told her about the happenings of the past few weeks. They gossiped.
If the chidld was illegitimate, the gossips(God Sibs) had to try to find out the name of the father. They also had to sex the child. There was often uncertainty about which sex the newborn is. If it could not be decided by the time of baptism the child was often given a name which would suit both sexeseg. Asa or Martha/Matthew 
The gossips often suggested names for the child.
Let me know if you want any more.
Paulene
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« Last Edit: Saturday 29 March 08 12:08 UTC (UK) by willow154 »
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Tricia_2
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 927
"Family ~ link to our past, bridge to our future"
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Mum told me that, when she first took me to see my paternal grandmother, she wouldn't let us in ~ because she said that I hadn't been 'churched'.
Mum told her that a priest had come to the hospital to bless all the new babies, so all was well and I could visit the family.
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Neal(e),Ropier,Jeynes/Jeens/Geens,Harris,Colley,Dyer,Baysand,Heeks~Glos Beckford/Grafton/Ashton B'ham
Hampton,Doyle~ Swansea,Merthyr/Dowlais,Pontypridd
Maldoon~Pontypridd,Frome
Davies~MerthyrTydfil
Llewellyn~S.Wales
Keefe,O'Keefe~MountainAsh,Pontypridd, PA
Svombo/Swambo/Swanbo~Greece Hydra; Cork/Queenstown; Glam~Cardiff,Pontypridd
Barry~Cork Queenstown; Glam
Thornton~Yorks Baildon; Glam Swansea,Merthyr
Jones~Carmarthen Llanboidy
Sarjant,Cole~B'ham,Leamington,Worcester
Hiley/Tirebuck/Mason~Bham
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willow154
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3157
Mum - Such love
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Hi Tricia,
How long ago would that have been?
Paulene
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Tricia_2
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 927
"Family ~ link to our past, bridge to our future"
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1956 ~ it would have been an RC priest.
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Neal(e),Ropier,Jeynes/Jeens/Geens,Harris,Colley,Dyer,Baysand,Heeks~Glos Beckford/Grafton/Ashton B'ham
Hampton,Doyle~ Swansea,Merthyr/Dowlais,Pontypridd
Maldoon~Pontypridd,Frome
Davies~MerthyrTydfil
Llewellyn~S.Wales
Keefe,O'Keefe~MountainAsh,Pontypridd, PA
Svombo/Swambo/Swanbo~Greece Hydra; Cork/Queenstown; Glam~Cardiff,Pontypridd
Barry~Cork Queenstown; Glam
Thornton~Yorks Baildon; Glam Swansea,Merthyr
Jones~Carmarthen Llanboidy
Sarjant,Cole~B'ham,Leamington,Worcester
Hiley/Tirebuck/Mason~Bham
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