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Topic: Beveridge connections. (Read 1181 times)
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crayspond
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Posts: 13
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Hi Tom,
Thanks for looking for me - i do have that information and feel lucky that i have actual copies of the pages from the Parish Records. It does make it feel more real i think.
I have posted you privately as i said i don't want to hijack your line and really get people muddled.
I hear Melbourne is a really nice city to live - bit different from Dumfermline!
Ailsa
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tommacgregor
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1188
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Hello Ailsa,
Yes, I received the private e-mail, and I'm examining the details and will get back to you.
Yes, Melbourne is a nice city, but, how can one compare it to Dunfermline with it's centuries of history? I actually live quite a few miles from the city at the entrance to the Mornington Peninsula. My wife and I live a very quiet life.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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tommacgregor
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Hello All,
I've just noticed that I haven't thanked "Sancti" and "Diddymiller" for their most welcome contributions above. I do apologise for that, it's just that I was wading through some records about the people that they were writing about, and I thought that I would wait a short time before posting what I have found. I think that "Sancti" and "Diddymiller" would know that I would never be so rude as to ignore their continuing assistance.
Another lady has been in touch with me by private e-mail and I tried to explain about the "confusion" about the Beveridge and Belfrage surname.
Let me give other researchers a bit more information about the dangers of this problem, because, believe me, over the past few days I feel as if I've been wading through a sea of mud. I was looking at some records that stated that a Margaret Belfrage was born on 7th February, 1739 at Dalgety in Fife and that a Walter Belfrage was born on 11th November, 1740, also at Dalgety. Their parents were shown as James Belfrage and Doretta Williamson.
Now, maybe I'm just a stubborn old fella, but when I see a Janet Beveridge shown as born on the 18th September, 1733 at Dalgety in Fife to James Beveridge and Dorothy Williamson, I don't accept that as pure coincidence.
Another example: I see a record for a David Belfrage being born on 28th May, 1740 to a Robert Belfrage and Marin Jape and this is an Extracted Birth/Christening Record. However, when I see yet another record stating that a William Beveridge was born on 2nd August, 1752 at Dalgety in Fife to a Robert Beveridge and Marian Japp, that's when I again reiterate that I don't believe in the Tooth Fairy!
Now, some of you newcomers to RootsChat may understand why I can spend several days on examining a mass of paperwork, to come up with a "satisfactory" answer. I hate like Hell to leave people "hanging in the air" so to speak. Naturally enough, I do make the occasional slip - we all do! However, it's nice to think that I have the time and the patience to check these discrepancies and report back to you via my postings. I am, in no way, trying to discourage people from using their available resources. On the contrary, I'm trying to demonstrate how careful we have to be about inserting data into our Family Tree.
I will be returning to my "normal" postings very shortly, and the different spellings has triggered me to insert just "a morsel" of information about the Beveridge - Japp connection. It will not be all neat and tidy, I assure you. However, now that I've attempted to explain the difficulties with the Surnames, you should be able to pick your way, (with a lot of care!) across the ice.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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tommacgregor
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1188
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Hello All,
Wow! I didn't realise just how many people out there are connected to the families of my ancestors. I would like to say a big thank you to all of you who have taken the trouble to contact me seeking assistance and for the rather nice comments.
In my previous posting, I made it very, very clear that the variations in the spelling of Surnames can be a real pain in the posterior, but tried to demonstrate, that this can be a possible cause for those peculiar "blank spots" on our records. I also made it clear that the following information is not coming to you in a neat and orderly fashion. It has been carried out after an awful lot of pure, hard slog.
John Beveridge was married to Eupham Japp (or Jape, or Jeap, and so on and so forth). Although I do not have a date for their wedding, I can only believe that it was shortly before January 1718 and probably at Dalgety or Dunfermline in Fife.
Margaret Beveridge b 3rd January, 1718 at Dalgety in Fife.
chr. 12th January, 1718 at Dalgety in Fife.
Walter Beveridge born 26th March, 1720
Elizabeth Beveridge born 11th March 1722
Euphan Beveridge born 18th January, 1724
Agnes Beveridge born 6th June, 1726
James Beveridge born 7th July, 1728
Elspet Beveridge born 12th July, 1734
Now, I didn't like that gap between the years 1728 and 1734. However, THE ANSWER MAY BE CONTAINED IN THE FOLLOWING:
John Beveridge husband of Effie Jape, their children:
Christian Beveridge born 1st November, 1730 at Dalgety in Fife
William Beveridge born 26th August, 1732 at Dalgety in Fife.
Now, once again "the coincidences" are, to me, just too great to be ignored, but, as always, it's up to you whether you agree or disagree.
Before I end this posting, the thought crossed my mind, "Was the Elspeth (Betty) Beveridge who married Walter Japp, (born 18th December, 1735 at Dalgety) one of the Elizabeth or Elspet Beveridges that I mentioned above. That marriage took place on the 11th July, 1755".
I sincerely hope that some of the data above may just possibly be those missing parts of your records.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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tommacgregor
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1188
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Hello All,
I wanted to bring the Beveridge/Japp discussion to a temporary halt by passing on just a bit more assistance to you.
I noted during my examination of many documents, the following:
Robert Beveridge and Marian Japp had the following children:
Euphan Beveridge born 8th November, 1746 at Dalgety in Fife.
James Beveridge born 1st October, 1748 at Dalgety in Fife.
Walter Beveridge born 1st January, 1751 at Dalgety in Fife
William Beveridge born 2nd August, 1752 at Dalgety in Fife.
However, I also noted the following VARIATION IN THE SPELLING OF SURNAMES:
David Belfrage, born 28th May, 1740 to Robert BELFRAGE and Marin JAPE.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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tommacgregor
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1188
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Hello All,
Now that I've had something to eat and had a bit of a break, I thought that it would be a nice touch to give a little more assistance to those other researchers who are still struggling to connect their Beveridge and Japp ancestors. I will try very hard to keep it in chronological order and retain the Beveridge and Japp surnames rather than their variants, so please bear with me.
Walter Jape (let's call him Japp) became the husband of Elizabeth Beveridge on the 11th July, 1755 at Coaltown of Fordell, Dalgety in Fife. He had been born there on 18th December, 1735. His parents were Walter Japp, (born about 1697 at Dalgety), and Alison Williamson who was born on the 18th August, 1702 at Newburgh in Fife. Alisons's parents were David Williamson and Margaret Anderson. Walter Japp, Junior was an only child.
Elizabeth Beveridge was the daughter of James Beveridge and Dorothy Williamson. (In some records the spelling of the Surnames differ!). As I have already stated, Walter Japp married Elizabeth Beveridge on 11th January, 1755 when he was about 20 years of age.
Walter Japp and Elizabeth Beveridge had a son, let's call him Walter Japp IIIto make things a little easier! He was born 26th September, 1760. They also had a daughter whom they christened Montgomery Japp. She was born on the 23rd May, 1764.
Walter Japp III married an Agnes Margaret Gardiner. Their son, George Japp who was born 13th May, 1798 at a place called Barony, which is in Lanarkshire, (correct me if I'm wrong, "Sancti"). He married Margaret Adamson, who was born about 1800 also at Barony.
George Japp was born in 1835 at Mauchline in Ayrshire and he married a young lady by the name of Jean Armour. Their son, Andrew Armour Japp, was born on 13th March, 1875.
In this posting I have covered a period of about 140 years in just a few paragraphs. I would, as always, urge other researchers to use this information as a launching pad for more extensive research. Check what I have witten for obvious typing errors and let us know of them so that amendments can be made.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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« Last Edit: Sunday 06 April 08 05:58 BST (UK) by tommacgregor »
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sancti
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1071
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Tom, I thought I would confirm the Walter Japp/Jape marriages from the OPR's
26/06/1719 JAP WALTER married ALISON WILLIAMSON at Aberdour (Fife) /FIFE
11/07/1755 JAP WALTER married ELIZABETH BEVERIDGE at Dalgetty /FIFE
24/05/1778 JAPE WALTER married MARGRET GARDNER at Barony GLASGOW CITY/LANARK
01/01/1789 JAP WALTER married ELSPET WILSON at Dalgetty /
15/07/1832 JAPE WALTER married MARGARET LAIRD at Barony GLASGOW CITY/LANARK
16/05/1835 JAPP WALTER married CHRISTIAN WALDRIGE/ at Dalgetty /FIFE
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sancti
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1071
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Tom, I checked the OPR christening records and it shows that Walter Japp and Margaret Gardiner had at least 11 children between Glasgow and Ayrshire
There 1st was Agnes
28/03/1779 JAPE AGNES born to WALTER JAPE/MARGRET GARDNER CHILD 1 at Barony
13/05/1798 JAPE GEORGE born to WALTER JAPE/MARGARET GARDNER CHILD 11 at Barony GLASGOW CITY/LANARK
Looking at their marriage date and the birth of George it makes sense
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tommacgregor
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Posts: 1188
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Hello "Sancti",
Thanks for confirming the marriage dates and also picking up on the slip about Walter Japp being an only child. Walter was only 18 years of age when he married the 22 year-old Agnes Margaret Gardiner. They did indeed marry on the 24th May, 1778 at Barony in Glasgow. What I meant to say was that their son, George, who was born 13th May, 1798 at Barony came along when his mother was about 42 years old. Their son, George, who married Margaret Adamson only had one child, his son, George, who was born in 1835 at Mauchline in Ayrshire. He met and married Jean Armour, who was born on 27th July, 1841. Their son was christened Andrew Armour Japp who was born 13th March, 1875 at Aitkenhead.
As I warned, it's like wading through a field of mud at times. The source of information is directly from the descendants of Andrew Armour Japp and I would imagine that the Death Certificates of Andrew, his parents, and maybe even his grandparents may be available for researchers of the family to take a look at.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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tommacgregor
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1188
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Hello All,
This morning, I've been slogging away at another member of the Beveridge family who married into the Wilson family. Once again, it has been a bit like walking through a minefield due to the confususion that I experience with the records. I will endeavour to point out the parts that are confusing, but I would ask for your assistance by checking on the details that I will give you.
It appears that there are births at Halbeath, near Dunfermline in Fife, as well as at Torryburn and Dunfermline itself. Where I have come across Extracted Birth/Christening Records as well as Extracted Marriage Records, I will show them as an aid in your investigations.
Robert Beveridge was born on the 27th October, 1779 at Torryburn in Fife, and that is stated in an Extracted Birth/Christening Record His parents are shown as being William Beveridge and Janet Brown and the Submitted Marriage Certificates give their marrige date as between 1773/1774, which appears to fit well with the birth date of Robert Beveridge in 1779.
There is an Extracted Marriage Record for the marriage of Robert Beveridge to Agnes Wilson. That marriage took place on the 4th December, 1806 at Crossgates near Dunfermline. Now, I know Crossgates quite well, and can tell overseas researchers that it is quite close to Halbeath and the Royal Burgh of Dunfermline.
Now, let's take a look at Robert Beveridge's wife, Agnes Wilson. I believe that she was born/christened on the 3rd May, 1788 at Halbeath near Dunfermline. Her parents are given as David Wilson and Agnes Mackie and, again, there is an Extracted Marriage Record for their marriage. This is given as 4th April, 1772 "at Dunfermline". Again the date of marriage fits in quite well with the birth of their daughter, Agnes, who married Robert Beveridge.
I dug a bit deeper and found a few children and noticed that their birthplaces swung between Dunfermline and Torryburn. Some of the births are Extracted. I would think that they had more children than the ones that I now show you:
Robert Wilson born 18th March, 1773 at Torryburn in Fife.
William Wilson born 13th December, 1774 at Torryburn in Fife.
Agnes Wilson born 3rd May, 1788 at Dunfermline in Fife.
Thomas Wilson born 21st July, 1795 at Dunfermline in Fife.
Now let's go back to Robert Beveridge and his wife, Agnes Wilson and look at their children:
Agnes Beveridge born 24th February, 1808 at Halbeath, near Dunfermline.
Janet Beveridge born 6th May, 1810 at Halbeath near Dunfermline.
David Beveridge born 12th July, 1812 at Townhill in Dunfermline.
Robert Beveridge born 10th September, 1813 at Townhill in Dunfermline.
Agnes Beveridge born 30th July, 1815 at Venurefair in Fife.
William Beveridge born 24th July, 1817 at Venturefair in Fife.
Thomas Beveridge born 2nd August, 1822 at Kirkcaldy in Fife.
George Beveridge born 15th October, 1824 
James Beveridge born 23rd June, 1827 at Halbeath near Dunfermline.
Margaret Beveridge born 1st January, 1830 at Halbeath near Dunfermline.She died on 15th February, 1902.
As you can see, there has been quite a bit of work carried out, and I'm the first to admit that it's not all neat and tidy. However, I believe that it can be used as a launching pad for further investigation, and I invite you to do so.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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tommacgregor
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Hello All,
In this posting I will be a little bit closer to my family because I'm going to look at the parents of my Great-Great-Grandfather, James Beveridge, who was born on the 25th August, 1797 at Coaltown of Fordell, Dalgety in Fife. As some of you may know, I experienced some considerable difficulty on this part of my Family Tree, and went off on a tangent, believing that James' father was a George Beveridige who was born at Tough, way up north in Aberdeenshire. As "Sancti" may remember, this took me back to John Beveridge and Jean Marnoch. I was wrong, and not ashamed to admit that fact.
Our George Beveridge was actually born much closer to home, being born on the 25th August, 1797 at Coaltown of Fordell, Dalgety, which is pretty close to Halbeath near Dunfermline. His parents were John Beveridge and Grissel Beveridge. He married Janet Wilson on the 5th February, 1820 at Dunfermline in Fife.
The following information will now confirm that this couple really were my ancestors:
Their children:
John Beveridge born 1st February, 1821 at Halbeath near Dunfermline in Fife.
Robert Beveridge born 23rd October, 1822 at Halbeath near Dunfermline in Fife.
James Beveridge born 9th May, 1827 "at Dunfermline" in Fife. He died on the 4th March, 1895 at Woodlands, Coatbridge, Lanarkshire. He married my Great-Great-Grandmother, Elizabeth Nielson on the 15th April, 1849 at Old Monkland (Coatbridge) Lanarkshire.Helen Beveridge born 5th March, 1844 at Gartsherrie, Lanarkshire. She died on 29th January, 1880 at Milton, which I believe is a suburb of Glasgow. (Correct me if I'm wrong about this part of "your stamping ground, "Sancti").
Although I do have a copy of the Death Certificate of James Beveridge who died at Woodlands, I don't have one for his sister, Helen, but clearly, the Death Certificates confirm the names of the parents. With this posting, one can now see the "migration" of the family from around Halbeath and Dalgety over to the west of Scotland - Lanarkshire. That had puzzled me for some time.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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tommacgregor
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1188
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Hi Ailsa,
Let me give you the source of the information that I was referring to:
IGI Individual Record
Andrew BELFRAGE married Christian GIB 19th October, 1693 Of, Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland.
Source: Submitted Record by a member of the LDS Church.
Film Number: 178071
Ref. No: 901.
..............................................................................................................
Andrew BELFRAGE
Father: Johne BELFRAGE
Mother: Janet BLAIKET
Marriages:
Spouse: Christian GIBB
Marriage: 19th October, 1693. Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland.
Source: Submitted Record by a member of the LDS Church.
Batch Number: 1860291 Sheet 19 Source Call No: 1553436.
.......................................................................................................
If you live near an LDS Family History Centre, I'm pretty sure that the people there would be delighted to offer you further assistance. It may well be that people on RootsChat such as Monica and Sancti may also be able to offer further assistance.
My very best wishes.
Tom.
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pumps100
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Hi Tom,
Thanks for that info. I will find out where my nearest family history centre is. If i find out any more i will inform this board.
regards,
Ailsa
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crayspond
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I forgot to say that i have contacted the scottish genealogy site they have replied asking for more information which i have sent to them.
Diddymiller on this site looked up the MI and lair inscription but no luck there.
I have been to Dunfermline library recently for a few hours only (sadly) and could not find much more than i have.
I take on board what you say about other members of the family - In a later birth cert for John Beveridge born 27/1/1765 (OPR births 424/0060 0278 Dunfermline) it states
John Beveridge weaver burgh of Dunfermline had a son born to him of his wife Margaret Dale January 24th baptized 27th named John, witnesses James Beveridge shoemaker in Dunfermline and Adam Beveridge weaver there.
Thinking a clue could be in the James and Adam (brothers of the father John?) i have searched but have come up with nothing. Maybe someone knows who else would be a witness in those days.
Anyway as you know the search will go on!
Thanks for the interest,
Ailsa
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