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Author Topic: Can I ask ?? .....  (Read 3642 times)
liverpool annie
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Can I ask ?? .....
« on: Wednesday 09 April 08 03:17 BST (UK) »

Is there such a thing as an Indian census ??

I was reading an article ... and it mentioned the Indian census !!  Undecided

Thanking you in advance !!

Annie  Smiley

Edit ...... wouldn't you know it .... as soon as I ask ... I find them ??!!

http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/census2/index.htm

but hard to read !!  Tongue
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Cooper : Muels : Howarth : Every : Price : King

Be who you are and say what you feel -  because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind !
Dr. Seuss

Erect no gravestone .... let the Rose every year bloom for his sake ! Rilke Sonnets to Orpheus, I:5

Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
US source - US Census Bureau
http://www.census.gov/genealogy/www/faqgene.txt
The Commonwealth War Graves Commission
liverpool annie
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Re: Can I ask ?? .....
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 09 April 08 04:07 BST (UK) »


Maybe I should be more specific .... 'cos I really don't know what I'm talking about .....  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

I'm looking for Red Shirt ......

Quote
Red Shirt (OGLE LUTA) was born on "Platte River" in a village near Fort Fetterman (Wyoming), in Wagluhe (Loafers) band, Oglala subdivision of Sioux Tribe.
He wasn't at the Little Big Horn during the famous battle though he was often associated with chief Three Bears band.
He was always a peace-chief, and he participated in 1870 and 1880 at two delegations in Washington.
He officially became a chief in 1878 at Pine Ridge Agency.
In 1887 he joined in Buffalo Bill's "Wild West Show" and also visited Europe with the show. He died in 1925

but I'm confused ...... because he was supposed to be the same tribe as Sitting Bull - and he was of the Hunkpapa Souix ..... are they the same ??  Roll Eyes
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Cooper : Muels : Howarth : Every : Price : King

Be who you are and say what you feel -  because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind !
Dr. Seuss

Erect no gravestone .... let the Rose every year bloom for his sake ! Rilke Sonnets to Orpheus, I:5

Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
US source - US Census Bureau
http://www.census.gov/genealogy/www/faqgene.txt
The Commonwealth War Graves Commission
liverpool annie
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Re: Can I ask ?? .....
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 09 April 08 05:21 BST (UK) »


Well I just found this information that I posted on the other thread .... heres the link !! ( just in case anybodys interested !!  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes )

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,296911.30.html

Annie  Smiley
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Cooper : Muels : Howarth : Every : Price : King

Be who you are and say what you feel -  because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind !
Dr. Seuss

Erect no gravestone .... let the Rose every year bloom for his sake ! Rilke Sonnets to Orpheus, I:5

Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
US source - US Census Bureau
http://www.census.gov/genealogy/www/faqgene.txt
The Commonwealth War Graves Commission
LissaM
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Re: Can I ask ?? .....
« Reply #3 on: Friday 11 April 08 01:30 BST (UK) »
Hi Annie!!   is there still a question to be answered here??

Yes,  there are Indian Census and they are searchable for 1885-1940.  I have no clue if these a complete by any means.  My guess is probably not!

The census dates do not directly correspond to the other established census dates   -- 1904 and 1931, for example

There are 56 hits for "Red Shirt"  in some form or another  ---   primarily in  Arizona (Navajo, Hopi & Paiute Tribes).  A handful n South Dakota, the Pine Ridge Tribe/area, and (1) Navajo tribesman from Utah.

Searching for Ogle Lute produced zero hits.

Smiley Smiley Smiley
lissa
 
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liverpool annie
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Re: Can I ask ?? .....
« Reply #4 on: Friday 11 April 08 01:44 BST (UK) »


Hi Lissa !

Like I said ... if I knew what I was talking about ... I'd be dangerous !!  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

What I'm REALLY looking for - is Red Shirt and his family .... I know he was born near Douglas Wyoming ... apparently of a white father and Lakota mother !! ...... but then ...... everything gets all mixed up .... so I thought if I could find him on a census ... all would be revealed !!  Shocked Shocked ( silly me huh ?? ) I would also like to find out if he was married at all .... he had a few children I believe ! ... ( I have no idea of names or details  )

Pretty impossible really isn't it ??  Huh
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Cooper : Muels : Howarth : Every : Price : King

Be who you are and say what you feel -  because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind !
Dr. Seuss

Erect no gravestone .... let the Rose every year bloom for his sake ! Rilke Sonnets to Orpheus, I:5

Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
US source - US Census Bureau
http://www.census.gov/genealogy/www/faqgene.txt
The Commonwealth War Graves Commission
LissaM
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Re: Can I ask ?? .....
« Reply #5 on: Friday 11 April 08 01:49 BST (UK) »
probably pretty impossible  ....  let me mess around some more....

may have to be tomorrow night as I am fast approaching beddy bye hour......unless of course,  I get obsessed in looking for Red Shirt   Roll Eyes
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liverpool annie
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Re: Can I ask ?? .....
« Reply #6 on: Friday 11 April 08 01:59 BST (UK) »



Heres a warrior  ... to tempt you maybe ...... !!   Roll Eyes

* red_shirt_a.jpg (54.7 KB, 468x694 - viewed 265 times.)
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Cooper : Muels : Howarth : Every : Price : King

Be who you are and say what you feel -  because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind !
Dr. Seuss

Erect no gravestone .... let the Rose every year bloom for his sake ! Rilke Sonnets to Orpheus, I:5

Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
US source - US Census Bureau
http://www.census.gov/genealogy/www/faqgene.txt
The Commonwealth War Graves Commission
LissaM
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Can I ask ?? .....
« Reply #7 on: Friday 11 April 08 02:06 BST (UK) »
78,000 persons enumerated in Wyoming Indian Censuses.   Nothing coming us for Red Shirt  or  Ogle Lute.

Wondering if his father was white, would they be in the "regular" census .... BUT without a name -----   aiyiyi!!

Douglas WY is in Converse Co. and on the North Platte River.  In 1900,  only 900 people.   What year(s) do you want to explore??    

Also, if they lived near and not in Douglas.......  Roll Eyes
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LissaM
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Re: Can I ask ?? .....
« Reply #8 on: Friday 11 April 08 02:07 BST (UK) »
WOW!   Impressively handsome, isn't he  Shocked Shocked Shocked
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liverpool annie
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Re: Can I ask ?? .....
« Reply #9 on: Friday 11 April 08 02:19 BST (UK) »


More than impressive I'd say !! ..... he was still a very handsome man as he got older ..... Queen Victoria was VERY impressed by him !!  Cheesy

This is a bit of what we have ......

The Red Shirt appearing in the photographs and who traveled with the Buffalo Bill Wild West Show was a member of the Wagluhe or Loafer Band generally considered to be a mixture of Oglala and Brule.

In an interview in 1923 Red Shirt noted that he was born near a fort on the Platte River in Wyoming the name of which he could not recall it's been indicated that Red Shirt was born near Orin Junction Orin is roughly twenty miles downstream from Fort Fetterman. Several sources indicate that our Red Shirt was the son of a white man and a Lakota mother. We do not yet know their names.

It's possible he was at the Little Big Horn !! Red Shirt became leader of a small band of Loafers on Pine Ridge about 1878-79 - in his 1923 interview he showed commissioners his chief's certificate dated 1879 signed by the Commissioner of Indian Affairs and the Secretary of the Interior - in 1880 he traveled to Carlisle Barracks and on to Washington D.C. with Red Cloud.

Red Shirt's leadership role appears to have only lasted a few years. He soon became involved with the Wild West Shows which seems to be his main economic support for the next several decades. We will have to do some more research into his final decade to know if he became involved again at all in Oglala politics ....... he died in 1925 !
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Cooper : Muels : Howarth : Every : Price : King

Be who you are and say what you feel -  because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind !
Dr. Seuss

Erect no gravestone .... let the Rose every year bloom for his sake ! Rilke Sonnets to Orpheus, I:5

Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
US source - US Census Bureau
http://www.census.gov/genealogy/www/faqgene.txt
The Commonwealth War Graves Commission
LissaM
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Posts: 898


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Can I ask ?? .....
« Reply #10 on: Friday 11 April 08 02:24 BST (UK) »
Okay ---  since this is a "family" site I was being reserved  ---   he's a gorgeous hottie! 

Have you been here??   He seems to be mentioned under Chief Rocky Bear as an Oglala soldier

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mikestevens/tiyo2-p/p7.htm
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liverpool annie
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Re: Can I ask ?? .....
« Reply #11 on: Friday 11 April 08 02:34 BST (UK) »

Yes ... I was looking at that because it said ....

Quote
Rocky Bear was an early and longtime favorite of Cody recieved $75 a month's salary. At Europe in 1892.8 (?) was listed as Head of the Household on the Indian Census at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, Wounded Knee District, Shannon Co., South Dakota, USA, on June 30, 1904

And I know a lot of the Wild Wild West Show Indians came home to South Dakota - but I couldn't find the census that was quoted !!  Undecided
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Cooper : Muels : Howarth : Every : Price : King

Be who you are and say what you feel -  because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind !
Dr. Seuss

Erect no gravestone .... let the Rose every year bloom for his sake ! Rilke Sonnets to Orpheus, I:5

Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
US source - US Census Bureau
http://www.census.gov/genealogy/www/faqgene.txt
The Commonwealth War Graves Commission
LissaM
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Posts: 898


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Can I ask ?? .....
« Reply #12 on: Friday 11 April 08 02:53 BST (UK) »
I'm only going from "Dancing With Wolves" here,  but weren't there groups of Lakota Sioux who were displaced from the Dakotas and removed  to the West.....that would have been right after the Civil War so the 1870 dates mentioned work.....

I have to go to bed......I'm exhausted  but this is definately very interesting so I will return........

I need to concentrate on reading your complete threads on him.

Grin Grin
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liverpool annie
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Re: Can I ask ?? .....
« Reply #13 on: Friday 11 April 08 02:57 BST (UK) »


Yes ! go to bed !! .... I've kept you up long enough !!  Smiley

Thanks for your help !

Annie  Smiley
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Cooper : Muels : Howarth : Every : Price : King

Be who you are and say what you feel -  because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind !
Dr. Seuss

Erect no gravestone .... let the Rose every year bloom for his sake ! Rilke Sonnets to Orpheus, I:5

Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
US source - US Census Bureau
http://www.census.gov/genealogy/www/faqgene.txt
The Commonwealth War Graves Commission
liverpool annie
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in her puddin' hat
Re: Can I ask ?? .....
« Reply #14 on: Friday 11 April 08 05:07 BST (UK) »


Well ..... I can't believe they would use this proud man's picture on the package of a sleep aid and joint cream ..... I'm stunned !!  Shocked Shocked Shocked

http://www.lakotaherbs.com/about.html
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Cooper : Muels : Howarth : Every : Price : King

Be who you are and say what you feel -  because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind !
Dr. Seuss

Erect no gravestone .... let the Rose every year bloom for his sake ! Rilke Sonnets to Orpheus, I:5

Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
US source - US Census Bureau
http://www.census.gov/genealogy/www/faqgene.txt
The Commonwealth War Graves Commission
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