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Topic: Can I ask ?? ..... (Read 4243 times)
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liverpool annie
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in her puddin' hat
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Hi Girls !
Well I got this from my friend in Douglas .... looks like a copy of Mike Stevens genealogy website to me ... so he must have deposited it there !! which means that they think he was married to Pretty Woman !! ............ bummer I was hoping for something different !! .... she sent a couple of photos too but we already have them !!
I can't find the 1886 census entry !!
Redshirt was born at Platte River Region, Lakota Territory, in 1840.1 He married (?) Pretty Woman in 1861.1 (?) Red Shirt witnessed the meeting of Chief (?) Red Cloud; "The agency Indians met Daniels, Col. Smith, and Brig Gen. E. O. C. Ord, who had replaced Augur as the commander of the Department of the Platte, on April 10 [1871] to thrash out the well-worn agency problems.70" [Price,Chiefs, headmen, and warriors :, 1993, pg.93]
"70 Present at the agency during the month of April were the following chiefs and soldiers as designated by Agent Daniels. Oglala Chiefs : Old Man Afraid of His Horse, Blue Horse, Little Wound, and Red Cloud; Oglala Soldiers: Red Shirt, Sword, Sittling Bull the Oglala, Rocky Bear, Three Bears, Sitting Bear (a chief?), American Horse; Brule Chiefs: Stabber (probably Oglala), Day, and White Tail ; Brule Soldiers ; Yellow Robe, White Crane Walking (also identified as Oglala), Tall Lance, and White Bull ; Hunkpapa Chief: Red Dog (probably no the Oglala chief, or if so, improperly identified); Hunkpapa Soldiers: Charging Hawk, Good Thunder, Black Elk, Long Whirlwind, Big Road (Oglala). Also present were several bands of Northern Cheyennes and Arapahoes". [Price, Chiefs, headmen, and warriors :, 1993, pg.112-11, n70] "43 Present at the June 12 [1871] council were: Red Cloud, Red Dog, Sword, Long Wolf, Man Afraid of His Horse (probably the elder), Quick Bear, Cold Face, Brave Bear, High Wolf, Sitting Bear, Red Plume, Little Cloud, Spider, Fire Thunder, Big Crow, Pretty Crow, Big Foot, Little Wound, Pumpkin Seed, Yellow Bear, Rocky Bear, Bad Wound, Bear Robe, Quick Eagle, Two Buffaloes, Corn Man, White Eyes, Milk, Spotted Horse, Red Leaf, Buffalo Sheds His Hair, and Red Buffalo." [Price, Chiefs, headmen, and warriors :, 1993, pg.110, n43]
"The agency Indians met Daniels, Col. Smith, and Brig Gen. E. O. C. Ord, who had replaced Augur as the commander of the Department of the Platte, on April 10 [1871]to thrash out the well-worn agency problems.70" [Price,Chiefs, headmen, and warriors :, 1993, pg.93].2 (?) was listed as Head of the Household on the Indian Census at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, Dakota Territory, USA, in 1886.1 (?)'s occupation: Wild Bill Cody's Wild West Show after 1892.
He died in 1925
(?) Pretty Woman1 (F)
(1843-), #19495
(?) Pretty Woman was born in 1843.1 She married (?) Red Shirt in 1861.1 She was listed as (?) Red Shirt's wife in a census in 1886 at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, Dakota Territory, USA.1
Last Edited=November 20, 2006
Children of (?) Pretty Woman and (?) Red Shirt
(?) Kills A Cow b. 18631
(?) His Battle b. 18731
(?) Smells Onions b. 18751
(?) Keeps Himself b. 18771
(?) Tongue Fool b. 18841
Citations
[S157] 1886.
(?) Kills A Cow1 (M)
(1863-), #19496
Pop-up Pedigree
(?) Kills A Cow was born in 1863.1 He was the son of (?) Red Shirt and (?) Pretty Woman.1 (?) Red Shirt was listed in the Indian Census on the date of in 1886 at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, Dakota Territory, USA.1
Last Edited=November 20, 2006
Citations
[S157] 1886.
(?) His Battle1 (M)
(1873-), #19497
Pop-up Pedigree
(?) His Battle was born in 1873.1 He was the son of (?) Red Shirt and (?) Pretty Woman.1 (?) Red Shirt was listed in the Indian Census on the date of in 1886 at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, Dakota Territory, USA.1
Last Edited=November 20, 2006
Citations
[S157] 1886.
(?) Smells Onions1 (M)
(1875-), #19498
Pop-up Pedigree
(?) Smells Onions was born in 1875.1 He was the son of (?) Red Shirt and (?) Pretty Woman.1 (?) Red Shirt was listed in the Indian Census on the date of in 1886 at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, Dakota Territory, USA.1
Last Edited=November 20, 2006
Citations
[S157] 1886.
(?) Keeps Himself1 (M)
(1877-), #19499
Pop-up Pedigree
(?) Keeps Himself was born in 1877.1 He was the son of (?) Red Shirt and (?) Pretty Woman.1 (?) Red Shirt was listed in the Indian Census on the date of in 1886 at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, Dakota Territory, USA.1
Last Edited=November 20, 2006
Citations
[S157] 1886.
(?) Tongue Fool1 (M)
(1884-), #19500
Pop-up Pedigree
(?) Tongue Fool was born in 1884.1 He was the son of (?) Red Shirt and (?) Pretty Woman.1 (?) Red Shirt was listed in the Indian Census on the date of in 1886 at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, Dakota Territory, USA.1
Last Edited=November 20, 2006
Citations
[S157] 1886.
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Cooper : Muels : Howarth : Every : Price : King Be who you are and say what you feel - because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind ! Dr. Seuss Erect no gravestone .... let the Rose every year bloom for his sake ! Rilke Sonnets to Orpheus, I:5 Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukUS source - US Census Bureau http://www.census.gov/genealogy/www/faqgene.txtThe Commonwealth War Graves Commission |
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liverpool annie
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 12123
in her puddin' hat
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continued .........
Children of (?) Red Shirt
Oldest Daughter of Red Shirt b. circa 1855
Younger Daughter of Red Shirt b. circa 1855
Youngest Daughter of Red Shirt b. circa 1855
Children of (?) Red Shirt and (?) Pretty Woman
(?) Kills A Cow b. 18631
(?) His Battle b. 18731
(?) Smells Onions b. 18751
(?) Keeps Himself b. 18771
(?) Tongue Fool b. 18841
Citations
[S157] 1886.
[S121] Catherine Price, Chiefs, headmen, and warriors : Oglala politics, 1851-1889.
Younger Daughter of Red Shirt (F)
(circa 1855-), #1589
Pop-up Pedigree
Younger died. Younger was born circa 1855. She was the daughter of (?) Red Shirt. She married John Baptiste Richard III in 1871.
Last Edited=February 26, 2006
Youngest Daughter of Red Shirt (F)
(circa 1855-), #1590
Pop-up Pedigree
Youngest died. Youngest was born circa 1855. She was the daughter of (?) Red Shirt. She married John Baptiste Richard III circa 1871.
Last Edited=February 23, 2006
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Cooper : Muels : Howarth : Every : Price : King Be who you are and say what you feel - because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind ! Dr. Seuss Erect no gravestone .... let the Rose every year bloom for his sake ! Rilke Sonnets to Orpheus, I:5 Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukUS source - US Census Bureau http://www.census.gov/genealogy/www/faqgene.txtThe Commonwealth War Graves Commission |
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liverpool annie
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I know what you're saying about names Gaie ..... but how could you name a little baby "Smells Onions " ??  
I came across this ... I thought was funny !!  ..... I bet the rest of them were so jealous !!
"Bill probably went to the Indian reservations himself to sign up the Indians for his show that year. That these "sign up" days were great occasions in the lives of the Indians is evident from a description attributed to Death Valley Scotty:
The ceremony of selecting the Indians for the show became an annual spring affair, and when he could Cody selected the lucky individuals himself. The Indians, five or six hundred of them, would come to Rushville (a Nebraska town near the South Dakota border) where the selections were made, and they came in their finest buckskins, feathers, and beads. They were quite a sight in their grand finery. Only a small part of that number could be used, and the ones not chosen felt pretty bad about it. The government required the Colonel, or his representative, to post bonds that the Indians would be well fed while away and that they would be returned to the reservation in good health and a new suit of clothes.16"
"C.D. O'Kieffe, who lived in the area in the eighties, said, "I'll never forget seeing Buffalo Bill come each spring to get his braves. They left in paint and feathers and returned, after a year, in Prince Albert coats, Stetsons, patent leather shoes and long, well-groomed glossy hair."17" [Yost. Buffalo Bill, Chicago, p. 143]
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Cooper : Muels : Howarth : Every : Price : King Be who you are and say what you feel - because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind ! Dr. Seuss Erect no gravestone .... let the Rose every year bloom for his sake ! Rilke Sonnets to Orpheus, I:5 Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukUS source - US Census Bureau http://www.census.gov/genealogy/www/faqgene.txtThe Commonwealth War Graves Commission |
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KathMc
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I was thinking it was better than "Smells Like Onions." And I know a couple "Tongue Fools." 
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Sligo: Davey (also Mayo), McCluskey, McNulty
Wexford and Staffordshire: Hayes, McClean
Galway and Staffordshire: Scott
Coventry: Wells, Collins, Palmer, Moody, Beck, Mickelwright, Husbands
Ireland: McNulty (Sligo), Kealy, Murphy (Carlow) Connolly, Gillen, Powell, Ryan, Moore, Martin
Davis from I don't know where originally
Stahl, Russia to England to USA
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mosiefish
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Posts: 1813
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Hiya Annie et al,
Just going back to Red Shirts short hair - I may have missed a post but he looks to have the remains draped around his neck like a necklace. Hmm! - everyone just looking at his face I suppose......
Regards,
Mo
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukLancs: Harrison, Entwistle, Devine, Grundy, Ashworth, Freeman, Jackson, Rushton Cornwall: Rich, Binney, Peake Devon: Walters |
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Gaie
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CenInf Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Mo & Annie and everyone else
Yes, I see what you mean, Mo, but I can't think of any culture where hair is/was cut off and then worn - usually there's a ritual involved, and correct disposal is important, whether burying or burning. But any excuse for repeat viewings, girls..... 
The South Dakota history website has a Pine Ridge Agency page listing censuses, correspondence etc.
http://www.sdhistory.org/arc/iap/arc_iap23.htm
Apparently this includes correspondence referring to indians abandoned in Europe or Australia by wild west shows, and authorisations of money sent back by showmen to be paid to people on the reservation (more than halfway down the page in Letters Received 1871-1907). If anybody has access this might be revealing for us. The originals are at the National Archives in Kansas City, and microfilms are held at South Dakota State Archives.
http://www.sdhistory.org/arc/archives.htm
Gaie
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Sussex, Burwash/Somerset/South London: PANKHURST/FABLING/GREEN/KING/PARROT/POPE/PEMBROKE
Notts/Leics/London: POLLARD/BELAND/FELLS/MORRISON/MARYSON/CLARKE
Northants: MARRIOT/T
Suffolk: LINGLY/LINGLEY/LINDLY/LINDLEY/ SEAGER /SIGGER/SEGGAR/VINCE
Gloucs: WINDOW Glamorgan: JENKINS Cardiganshire: JONES
Poland: KLARKOWSKI/OZIEMKIEWICZ France: LINETTE
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LissaM
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Annie and Gaie, Some really really good new stuff here..... have only had a chance to take a quick run through, but looking forward to later tonite when I can concentrate.
The names of Red Shirt's wife/wives?? most interesting! Way back we had something on In Sight's mother being called "Good Looking Face", I think.....figures that Red Shirt married the prettiest girl around!!
I think maybe having additional wives was a privilege and was granted to the esteemed ?? But maybe I'm making that up or it's the "Hollywood" version of things..... something further to be researched there with their marriage traditions.
The SD archived info also interesting --- wonder how we can get a look up or two .... or hundred??
Later, girls! Excellent work!!
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liverpool annie
RootsChat Marquessate
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in her puddin' hat
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Can you imagine all the lives that were lost because of that dance Gaie ?? 
I found a few bits and pieces ... Lissa was talking about a movie ... well they had one .... but I don't think we'd like it !!
Chief Red Shirt leader of the Native American resistance in the "cavalry picture" She Wore a Yellow Ribbon (1949), directed by John Ford, and produced by Merian C. Cooper, Ford, and Lowell Farrell. Boy, does Red Shirt hate the White Man, and John Ford shows his passion (and his wounded dignity) very plainly with a few deft shots. A classic western with a great cast including John Wayne (one of his best), Joanne Dru, John Agar, Ben Johnson , Harry Carey Jr., Victor McLaglen, Mildred Natwick, George O'Brien, Arthur Shields, Chief John Big Tree (Hallelujah!), Tom Tyler, Paul Fix, Francis Ford, Jack Pennick, Harry Woods and Irving Pichel (uncredited narrator).
Then this might make you smile !!
http://www.rootschat.com/links/039f/
But not this .......
http://www.rootschat.com/links/039d/
will rogers ... talks about the Wild West Show .....
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0390/
Annie 
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Cooper : Muels : Howarth : Every : Price : King Be who you are and say what you feel - because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind ! Dr. Seuss Erect no gravestone .... let the Rose every year bloom for his sake ! Rilke Sonnets to Orpheus, I:5 Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukUS source - US Census Bureau http://www.census.gov/genealogy/www/faqgene.txtThe Commonwealth War Graves Commission |
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Gaie
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Yes, it was banned, wasn't it, and some kept to the ban but others didn't. So they were slaughtered 
No, won't be seeing that film ( I probably did when I was small - rainy Saturday or Sunday afternoons on the UK meant old films on the telly, especially old westerns, Laurel & Hardy, Buster Keaton or Fred Astaire musicals).
Well, the fork hadn't been used for that long in Europe - the knife was the table utensil until quite late!!!
I'd read about Red Shirt having an argument with someone in Europe over the numbers of women each had attracted and that he had gone home early (but victorious numerically ) , from some other source. I think one of the ship's manifests back to the States has a very small contingent of Indians on board - can't remember which. Have we got a picture of Rocky Bear?
They must have got over it to have appeared in the same show together again in 1904.
Keep em coming, girl!!!
Gaie
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Sussex, Burwash/Somerset/South London: PANKHURST/FABLING/GREEN/KING/PARROT/POPE/PEMBROKE
Notts/Leics/London: POLLARD/BELAND/FELLS/MORRISON/MARYSON/CLARKE
Northants: MARRIOT/T
Suffolk: LINGLY/LINGLEY/LINDLY/LINDLEY/ SEAGER /SIGGER/SEGGAR/VINCE
Gloucs: WINDOW Glamorgan: JENKINS Cardiganshire: JONES
Poland: KLARKOWSKI/OZIEMKIEWICZ France: LINETTE
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liverpool annie
RootsChat Marquessate
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Remember when we were wondering what happened to the ones that missed the boat ??
Black Elk was one of a party of six Lakota Indians who unwisely allowed themselves to become detached from the rest of Buffalo Bill’s entourage just before it was scheduled to sail back to the States at the end of the 1887-88 season in England. As a consequence, they found themselves stranded in Manchester. They resolved their predicament by travelling to London, where they had heard that Mexican Joe had a rival Wild West show, and enlisted as performers
http://www.tnais.com/bbis/bb.html
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Cooper : Muels : Howarth : Every : Price : King Be who you are and say what you feel - because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind ! Dr. Seuss Erect no gravestone .... let the Rose every year bloom for his sake ! Rilke Sonnets to Orpheus, I:5 Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukUS source - US Census Bureau http://www.census.gov/genealogy/www/faqgene.txtThe Commonwealth War Graves Commission |
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