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Topic: PHILLIPS, 1820/1 Kingham, Chip. Nort. CENSUS 1841, 1851 lookup request (Read 1597 times)
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DebbieG
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Hi Mel - me again
I have just read through your findings on the other thread but I am afraid I don't think they are quite right, I checked out this bit
That's beginning to look a bit more organized.
William's son,
. WILLIAM CHARLES PHILLIPS - Christened: 25 JAN 1853, Chipping Norton, Oxford, ENG. -- WILLIAM Jr.'s Family - Married, ANN G. WASHBROOK, from Little Compton, on 26 JUN 1874, at Radway, Warwick, ENG. Wm., a farmer, had 164 acres, and empl. 4 men and a boy, at Over Norton, and lived at Park Farm, Hook Norton, Oxford, ENG.
. [Wm?- III?] PHILLIPS, b. 1875, Chipping Norton, Oxford, ENG.
. John PHILLIPS, 1879-80, Hook Norton, Oxford, ENG.
and it doesn't work
The William Charles Phillips baptised s/o William & Elizabeth in 1853 in Chipping Norton - the transcript entry reads
William Charles s/o William & Elizabeth Phillips of Over Norton - Farmer
I found William & Elizabeth in Over Norton in 1851
the household looks like this
William Phillips 37 farmer born Chipping Norton
Elizabeth Phillips 32
John Rosse Phillips 3
Susan Phillips 9 Mo
Ann Simms 22
Elizabeth Stunt 25
I am very sure that this William is the one born in 1814 the son of John & Rachel Phillips and not 'your' William
Sorry
Debbie
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Pay(n)ton, Payton, Pe(a)rton all Oxfordshire and Berkshire - particularly Abingdon Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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melcir.meri
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I saw and puzzled over it too last night Deb, just before bedtime. However, Hook Norton and Over Norton both use Chipping Norton as their market town. I am sure it has more admin. functions, Churches, etc., and is more significant for a christening, esp. if the Phillips clans could drive there in horse-drawn carriages [dressed to kill of course!] as central network spot. The fact that we battle with two Wm. and Eliz. marriages should resolve, as the ages are dis-similar. Did I get it wrong? I was so tired, but pushing to get all finished, so I could go to bed joyous that I'd finally got 'em back -- the family restored!! Let's fix it carefully, as I know it's a nightmare. I am still exhausted, as I've been midnighting to figure it out for days!! - Mel
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Phillips - ENGLAND - Kingham [Chipping Norton?], Oxon.; plus St George Hanover Square, Westminster;
Plus USA - Madison, Lake Co., Ohio; & CANADA - Alberta.
Mitchell - WALES - Anglesey - Beaumaris, & SCOTLAND, Berwickshire - Edrom; plus Roxburghshire - Lilliesleaf.
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melcir.meri
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Deb, one more aspect to consider, is natural affinity.
I KNOW that CHARLES, snr. is my ancestor, because
he was a male midwife. Gran - GRACE MARGUERITE
also became a midwife!! ~ That puts a clear seal on
this one, as it is pure genetics. So we have the right
group, and it's just the details which need adjusting.
I didn't quite 'get' what is bugging you, maybe it's
because I'm so tired, so just make sure I do get what
you feel doesn't work. Is it the birth of my William [I],
or of his son, William[II], or of Wm. jr's son, William [III]?
- Mel
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Phillips - ENGLAND - Kingham [Chipping Norton?], Oxon.; plus St George Hanover Square, Westminster;
Plus USA - Madison, Lake Co., Ohio; & CANADA - Alberta.
Mitchell - WALES - Anglesey - Beaumaris, & SCOTLAND, Berwickshire - Edrom; plus Roxburghshire - Lilliesleaf.
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melcir.meri
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Lets step-walk through the existing data, so we don't get lost in this maze.
Pigot’s 1830 Oxfordshire Directory, lists:
. Mrs. Phillips, 'nobility, gentry, & clergy' - High St., Chip. Nort.
. Charles, snr and jnr - Surgeons, of High St., Chipping Norton
IGI Ref. -
. William Phillips [I], born: 1821, Over Norton, Oxford, Eng; Married: Mrs. Elizabeth Phillips, about 1847, Chipping Norton, Oxford, Eng.;
The “DIRECTORY & GAZETTEER OF THE COUNTIES OF 0X0N, BERKS & BUCKS”, 1863, lists -
. William Phillips, farmer, Over Norton - He was apparently present then.
The "Register of electors to vote ... " gives 2 mentions of Phillips of Over Norton, between 1848 - 1915;
The "Post Offfice Directory", 1869, gives
. Wm. Phillips, jr., farmer, Ivy Cottage;
. Wm. Phillips, sr, farmer - [with no address; he must have gone, but name is not yet fully removed from list.
However, in
The Law Journal - Law reports, digests, 1965, pg 261, is
. PHILLIPS William, Salford, farmer, formerly Over Norton, both Oxfordshire, gentleman', nd [?];
"Kelly's Directory", 1883, shows
. Wm. Charles PHILLIPS, at Park farm, Hook Norton, Chipping Norton. So this address is clear. [Hook Norton too is part of Chip. Nort. in this address.]
. Wm. Phillips, Brimpton farm ... [end snippet].
IGI also has a marriage of a Wm. Phillips to an Anne Florey, in 1833 - ideal timing for earlier Wm., son of John & Rachel.
Is that the bug-a-boo bedded safely? - Mel
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Phillips - ENGLAND - Kingham [Chipping Norton?], Oxon.; plus St George Hanover Square, Westminster;
Plus USA - Madison, Lake Co., Ohio; & CANADA - Alberta.
Mitchell - WALES - Anglesey - Beaumaris, & SCOTLAND, Berwickshire - Edrom; plus Roxburghshire - Lilliesleaf.
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melcir.meri
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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OK. Debbie ~ I must be missing the point here ...
How do these details seem incorrect? Sure there are lots
of little babies growing up -- but this is Wm. II's family, so
that's no deterrent to being correct. He's my gran's 1/2-
brother, not her father. Please say why they should not
be there 'many years'? What makes this seem wrong ...
perhaps Wm. I also once had the farm, and then maybe
Wm. III eventually moved to Salford, or Wm. II. Please do
tell me what seems not correct, as to me it seems to fit
to a T.
I have no actual records, just snips picked up by gruelling
GOOGLE parameters, with different words, taking hours to
get some results.
Maybe you have better ways to fine-tune your feelings ...
I defer to your thoughts.
- Mel
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Phillips - ENGLAND - Kingham [Chipping Norton?], Oxon.; plus St George Hanover Square, Westminster;
Plus USA - Madison, Lake Co., Ohio; & CANADA - Alberta.
Mitchell - WALES - Anglesey - Beaumaris, & SCOTLAND, Berwickshire - Edrom; plus Roxburghshire - Lilliesleaf.
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melcir.meri
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Posts: 130
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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CORRECTION:
Ohh, now I get it! Wm. II is missing, and Wm. I
is there with Elizabeth, plus an extra wee bairn,
who may not have survived!!!
I suspect Wm. II would then be off at school, so
would have missed being on the CENSUS. Even
at day school, he would not be present --- I
believe the CENSUS is always prevented from
speculative additions. He would show up at the
SCHOOL he attended, no doubt??? [Is this the
practice?]
Even better, here's John R. PHILLIPS - the missing
2nd son I've been chasing after!!! This gets better
and better! Thanks so much, Deb for the look-up.
They must have lost little Susan though. But that
happened so often ... Sad.
So, is there any Record data to help me see which
region and batch etc. it is in?
How do I find out more about John R. and Susan?
I'm so thrilled, and hope this placates your noble
doubts, which have now dredged up this plum for
us to ponder! - Mel
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Phillips - ENGLAND - Kingham [Chipping Norton?], Oxon.; plus St George Hanover Square, Westminster;
Plus USA - Madison, Lake Co., Ohio; & CANADA - Alberta.
Mitchell - WALES - Anglesey - Beaumaris, & SCOTLAND, Berwickshire - Edrom; plus Roxburghshire - Lilliesleaf.
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melcir.meri
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 130
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Debbie ~ Of course I know you're helping!
But I feel v. tired tracing names all so identical.
-- I'm struggling to get it right. I am so delighted
to have people online who can guide me through
all these pitfalls.
Perhaps if we enter the two families side by side
in one note, we'll get it to work. I just haven't the
stamina tonight, as it has drained me.
We need a William [on 1881 Wales Census he
is shown as born in 1820 - but as his wife was so
much younger, what if he WAS really born in 1814
... Could he have fudged his age?] Which of the 2
Williams has the essentials re birth at Kingham,
which I have learned was then given as part of
Churchill, if this helps.
Was he born where his family resided, or were they
visiting? Perhaps his family did not normally reside
there. I have also located in "The poll for knights of
the shire for the county of Oxford", 1826, June ... -
Page 31, at KINGHAM. Phillips, William, Land holder
at Churchill, occupied by Thomas Bolter. Note: It does
not appear to include a residence on the property.
So either this had none, or was on a separate piece
of land, perhaps adjoining the residence.
I recall that gran mentioned a Phillips at Spratton
Hall as having some relationship [eg. cousin?] with
her family. Does this help at all in this contect? I
believe she corresponded about 1940 with someone
there ... ? This may have been the wife. I really
cannot speculate here ... I just remember my aunt
making some comment years later to remind me.
That's about all I can dig out for tonight, as I am so
tired, and need to take a little break ... Maybe in
the morning I'll be ready for more mental gymnastics.
Have a lovely day ... - Mel
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Phillips - ENGLAND - Kingham [Chipping Norton?], Oxon.; plus St George Hanover Square, Westminster;
Plus USA - Madison, Lake Co., Ohio; & CANADA - Alberta.
Mitchell - WALES - Anglesey - Beaumaris, & SCOTLAND, Berwickshire - Edrom; plus Roxburghshire - Lilliesleaf.
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melcir.meri
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 130
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Here's one, Deb
William Phillips 1820 Chipping Norton, Oxford, Eng.
Wed: 02 JUN 1862 Chipping Norton, Oxford, England
Josephine de Biernacka 1824 Chipping Norton, Oxford
Did they have children, and when did she die?
I can't find anything, so maybe a lookup will give some clues.
Otherwise, I think Wm. fudged his birth and is really the one
we've been discussing, especially as I have always thought
I recalled his son's names could be William and John R. -- but
I talked myself out of thinking I had it right when they didn't
show up ...
It's late again and I've been hunting for hours ... Goodnight, Mel
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Phillips - ENGLAND - Kingham [Chipping Norton?], Oxon.; plus St George Hanover Square, Westminster;
Plus USA - Madison, Lake Co., Ohio; & CANADA - Alberta.
Mitchell - WALES - Anglesey - Beaumaris, & SCOTLAND, Berwickshire - Edrom; plus Roxburghshire - Lilliesleaf.
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allisont
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Posts: 161
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Above is a submitted record on the IGI, below is on FreeBMD (hope you don't mind me intruding!)
Marriages Jun 1862
De Biernacka Josephine St Geo Han Sq 1a 493
Phillips William St Geo Han Sq 1a 493
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melcir.meri
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 130
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Great to have further new input!!
A tiny clue may be lurking in the groom's address, at
Hanover Square, which returns when he was found
in [temp.?] digs, above the coffee-house on the 1881
CENSUS. No doubt he had earlier held a more formal
residence there at time of his marriage. He seems to
have been a bach. a lv. ong time, or had perhaps
been widowed prior to this marriage??
This does not discount the possibility that he had
earlier been married to Eliz. of L. Compton ...
Would a London Postal Directory entry come in handy
at this point, or anther such -- Walfords?
Does anyone have fresh insights? - Mel
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Phillips - ENGLAND - Kingham [Chipping Norton?], Oxon.; plus St George Hanover Square, Westminster;
Plus USA - Madison, Lake Co., Ohio; & CANADA - Alberta.
Mitchell - WALES - Anglesey - Beaumaris, & SCOTLAND, Berwickshire - Edrom; plus Roxburghshire - Lilliesleaf.
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