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Topic: Groeslon, Llanllechid? (Read 1200 times)
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Mair
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Posts: 341
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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answer to the parish query - north side of the river - if north of river one parish ie LLanllechid if south - it was in Llandegai - the river was/is the boundary on the ecclesiastical parishes
that's it apparently 
North of the river, Llanllechid - south - llandegai hence Tregarth treated as part of Bethesda in real world, was in Llandegai as south of river. Bethesda its self is found in Llanllechid parish as on north side of the river ..........
Mair
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Researching-
Hughes C19th Caerhun/Llanllechid, Cae
Rowland(s) C18th/19th - Llanllyfni, Llanberis, Llanllechid Cae. Wisconsin, Mid West,West Coast States USA
Cardwell C19th - Great & Little Marton, Lancs
Williamson & Lambert C19th Stockport, Ches
Barnicoat C19th and before Cornwall Ches/Lancs C19/20th
and not forgetting.......
Jones - Garn/Dolbenmaen, Llanfihangel y Pennant (Cae), Lleyn Penninsula
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hiraeth
RootsChat Veteran
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Tyn-y-Capel, Minera
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Thanks to Welshgen & Mair for the further input and info re parish boundaries. that will help a lot with puzling out more of mine on the censuses 
Heather
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukCARRINGTON, ROBERTS, WILLIAMS, FOULKES, WYNN, BLUNT, JONES Denbighshire. DAVIES, OWEN, JONES, WILLIAMS, THOMAS, EVANS, MORGAN, SOLOMAN, GRIFFITHS Caernarfonshire & Anglesey THATCHER, HILLIER, PARISH Surrey APPLETON, MALTHOUSE, GLOVER Hertfordshire MCDONALD & SOUPER Aberdeen c1800 |
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hiraeth
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Tyn-y-Capel, Minera
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For anyone else researching Groeslon Llanllechid. My cousin in Montreal recalls she was once very familiar with Groeslon. She says it was very close to Bethesda Grammar School - at least in the late 40s/early 50s when she was a teenager
Thanks to all for their input.
Heather
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukCARRINGTON, ROBERTS, WILLIAMS, FOULKES, WYNN, BLUNT, JONES Denbighshire. DAVIES, OWEN, JONES, WILLIAMS, THOMAS, EVANS, MORGAN, SOLOMAN, GRIFFITHS Caernarfonshire & Anglesey THATCHER, HILLIER, PARISH Surrey APPLETON, MALTHOUSE, GLOVER Hertfordshire MCDONALD & SOUPER Aberdeen c1800 |
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Mair
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 341
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Might i suggest getting in touch with a local councillor who was educated there then
http://www.gwynedd.plaidcymru.org/content.php?nID=664;lID=1
will give the link to who to contact.
one never knows - from no Groeslon to two Groeslon - has to be worth a contact i would suggest - just in case!
M
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Researching-
Hughes C19th Caerhun/Llanllechid, Cae
Rowland(s) C18th/19th - Llanllyfni, Llanberis, Llanllechid Cae. Wisconsin, Mid West,West Coast States USA
Cardwell C19th - Great & Little Marton, Lancs
Williamson & Lambert C19th Stockport, Ches
Barnicoat C19th and before Cornwall Ches/Lancs C19/20th
and not forgetting.......
Jones - Garn/Dolbenmaen, Llanfihangel y Pennant (Cae), Lleyn Penninsula
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Cherrian
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 29
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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New to this site but fascinated by this thread.
My interest lies in Zachariah (or Zechs or Zacharias) Roberts because he seems to have had a business relationship and perhaps also a friendship with my great great grandfather Samuel Griffiths - also known as Samuel Hughes Griffith(s).
In February 1850 Zachariah was co - owner of the brig Emily and transferred some of his interest to Samuel Griffith on his taking over as master of Emily at that date. The shares were transferred back in Jan 1852 when Samuel moved on to become master of Caradoc. (See M Elis-Williams Bangor Port of Beaumaris at p200)
Zachariah was also a witness at Samuel Griffith's marriage to Margaret Parry at the Cathedral in Bangor on 6 May 1853.
I have therefore tried to find out what I can about Zachariah and found what I think is his baptismal record in batch C103331 of the IGI records - parents Robert Roberts and Anne Pierce - baptism at Capel-Y-Gate House Calvinistic Methodist, Llanllechid on 26 June 1814. I have also traced him in the census records and he variously describes his birthplace as Groeslon (1851), Llanllechid (1861), Groeslon nr Bangor (1871) and Bangor (1881).
Not sure how helpful this is - but there is clearly a link between Groeslon and Llanllechid - and there is also a Calvinistic Methodist link by the looks of things.
Cherrian
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hiraeth
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Tyn-y-Capel, Minera
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Hi Cherrian
Welcome to rootschat  Sorry it's been a while since your post. For some reason I did not get a notification email for this thread.
Anyway thank you for the additional info on Zachariah. I'm interested in your ancestor Samuel Hughes Griffith/s. Was he by any chance from Beaumaris? I have a Margaret Davies from Hirael who married a George Griffiths c1827 with Beaumaris /shipping connections in 1859 - also at the Cathedral. Margaret's stepfather Captain James Jones is also mentioned as a shipowner in the Elis-Williams book. Have you had any success researching Samuel Hughes vessel ownership/crew lists etc.?
Heather
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukCARRINGTON, ROBERTS, WILLIAMS, FOULKES, WYNN, BLUNT, JONES Denbighshire. DAVIES, OWEN, JONES, WILLIAMS, THOMAS, EVANS, MORGAN, SOLOMAN, GRIFFITHS Caernarfonshire & Anglesey THATCHER, HILLIER, PARISH Surrey APPLETON, MALTHOUSE, GLOVER Hertfordshire MCDONALD & SOUPER Aberdeen c1800 |
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Mair
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 341
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Heather
I may be grabbing at straws here - but hey one connection through the Pierce's may prove there could be another one.  - ever hopeful.
Your shipping connections - any connections???
The grandson of Thomas Rowlands and Mary Pierce had shares in a ship. My family and I have always wondered what on earth a quarryman such as my great grandfather, John Rowlands (1840 - 1908) would be doing with shares in a Liverpool ship with the nearest connections to Wales being where the shipyard owner was born!
We have copies of the share certs that were deposited at the Archives - so it is not a family tale!
M
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Researching-
Hughes C19th Caerhun/Llanllechid, Cae
Rowland(s) C18th/19th - Llanllyfni, Llanberis, Llanllechid Cae. Wisconsin, Mid West,West Coast States USA
Cardwell C19th - Great & Little Marton, Lancs
Williamson & Lambert C19th Stockport, Ches
Barnicoat C19th and before Cornwall Ches/Lancs C19/20th
and not forgetting.......
Jones - Garn/Dolbenmaen, Llanfihangel y Pennant (Cae), Lleyn Penninsula
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hiraeth
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 833
Tyn-y-Capel, Minera
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Hi Mair
From what I've read it was not uncommon for quarrymen to own shares in ships at that time. There were (are to this day) 64 shares in a ship and many were syndicated at the time. Not all the quarrymen were as poor and downtrodden as we tend to think of them now!
If you can, try to get a hold of the M. Elis-Williams book, Bangor Port of Beaumaris. It was a fascinating time in the history of the area and the book is an excellent read.
Heather
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukCARRINGTON, ROBERTS, WILLIAMS, FOULKES, WYNN, BLUNT, JONES Denbighshire. DAVIES, OWEN, JONES, WILLIAMS, THOMAS, EVANS, MORGAN, SOLOMAN, GRIFFITHS Caernarfonshire & Anglesey THATCHER, HILLIER, PARISH Surrey APPLETON, MALTHOUSE, GLOVER Hertfordshire MCDONALD & SOUPER Aberdeen c1800 |
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Cherrian
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Heather
Thanks for the welcome to rootschat.
You asked about Samuel Hughes Griffith. I have uncovered bits and pieces of his story by tracing the paper trail left by his having been a master mariner. From this I know that he was from Llaneilian, not Beamaris, (although Llaneilian is but a hop and a skip by boat from Beaumaris of course). He was born in February 1822, the second son of John Griffith and Catherine Hughes. John Griffith was a cooper by trade and a tenant farmer of a smallholding in Llaneilian known as Pen Slates. John Griffith seems to have taken over the tenancy on the death of his wife's mother - one Catherine Hughes (nee Roberts) who lived to the amazing age of 94 - and who had farmed the holding with her husband William Hughes for many years. Pen Slates continued to be farmed by the Griffith family well into the 20th century.
The only family story about Samuel Griffith that has survived is that he lost a ship in a terrible storm and died of discouragement shortly afterwards. He died in 1872 at the relatively young age of 50. I have spent some time trying to find out if there is any basis for the family story but have yet to come to any conclusion. As far as I know, he owned only one boat from around 1855 - the schooner Margaret and Ann, and she was not lost in a storm in 1872. Myrvin Elis-Williams tells her story at some length in his book Bangor Port of Beaumaris. He may however have held shares in other boats which may have been lost. He may also have been a member of the Bangor Mutual Shipping and Insurance Society which, I understand from the same book, had to make a huge call on its members as a result of losses in 1872. I have yet to do the research which might enable me to make better guesses as to what was the nature of his discouragement.
I have managed to trace some of the crew lists and half yearly returns of voyages for the Margaret and Ann for the period when Samuel Griffith was her owner. Only one of them lists his cargoes and I would guess it is fairly typical - slate from home, coals on one return journey and in ballast for several others.
Cherrian
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hiraeth
RootsChat Veteran
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Tyn-y-Capel, Minera
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Hi Cherrian
Have you read Ships and Seamen of Anglesey by Aled Eames for clues on your Samuel? I can look through my copy if not. I'm trying to locate my copy of Ventures In Sail by the same author but it has gone AWOL 
My great grandfather David Davies' family were blockmakers in Hirael. His father Hugh Davies 1803-1839 married Elizabeth Roberts, cousin of Zachariah. Hugh Davies was the son of David Davies blockmaker in Llanbeblig so my David was third generation. Elizabeth took over the blockmaking business and ran it after Hugh died until she married Capt James Jones in 1847. Presumably she had help from her family because she was left a widow with five children under age 10. James Jones and possibly his son were involved until my David completed his apprenticeship in Birkenhead and then took it up. As stated on an earlier post the Roberts family appeared to have owned quite a few properties in Hirael & Bangor. I tried contacting the Caernarfon Record Office for more information but the researcher was unable to assist with any records or deeds from that time. Research is awkward & expensive as I live so far away. Were you able to research the crew lists from the Anglesey record office or did you find them in London?
Heather
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukCARRINGTON, ROBERTS, WILLIAMS, FOULKES, WYNN, BLUNT, JONES Denbighshire. DAVIES, OWEN, JONES, WILLIAMS, THOMAS, EVANS, MORGAN, SOLOMAN, GRIFFITHS Caernarfonshire & Anglesey THATCHER, HILLIER, PARISH Surrey APPLETON, MALTHOUSE, GLOVER Hertfordshire MCDONALD & SOUPER Aberdeen c1800 |
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Cherrian
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Heather
I have not yet read Ships and Seamen of Anglesey in detail but a copy is waiting for me at the Caird Library which I am planning to visit at the end of next week when I will also be looking at some crew lists for the Margaret and Ann which they have managed to retrieve for me. (But thanks for the offer to look him up in your copy).
I went to the Anglesey Records Office to look at the crew lists for the Margaret and Ann held there.
Like you, I live quite a distance from North Wales but I am beginning to realise that I will not be able to find out much more about this side of the family unless I visit the Caernarfon Records Office and the Bangor University archives. One day!
I know that Roberts is a very common surname, like all the Welsh surnames alas, but I have found myself wondering about Samuel's grandmother, Catherine Roberts, and the fact that Zacharias Roberts was a witness at Samuel's marriage. Do you know whether your branch of the Roberts family had any Anglesey links?
Cherrian
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hiraeth
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Hi Cherrian
Re: possible Anglesey connections for the Roberts. Not that I know of at the moment. Elizabeth had several brothers & sisters all mentioned in the 1842 will of her father. I've been trying to find them all in the 1851 census but it is an uphill battle! ADDED Not helped by the fact he left them each a house with no address just numbered and he does not mention their husbands - only their children's names
What age was your Catherine and what was her father's name and occupation? do you have her on previous censuses?
Did you know that your Samuel is listed on Reg Davies' Welsh Mariner's database site? Apparently there are records at Kew and it gives his ticket number etc.
Basically I got the brush off from Caernarfon RO regarding anything to do with maritime connections. Haven't tried the Uni yet.
Heather
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukCARRINGTON, ROBERTS, WILLIAMS, FOULKES, WYNN, BLUNT, JONES Denbighshire. DAVIES, OWEN, JONES, WILLIAMS, THOMAS, EVANS, MORGAN, SOLOMAN, GRIFFITHS Caernarfonshire & Anglesey THATCHER, HILLIER, PARISH Surrey APPLETON, MALTHOUSE, GLOVER Hertfordshire MCDONALD & SOUPER Aberdeen c1800 |
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Cherrian
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Hi Heather
Catherine Roberts was born around 1747 but I do not know where or who her parents were. She married William Hughes (as evidenced by a lawsuit against the pair of them in 1778 when they were living at Pen Slates, Llaneilian, Anglesey). I have not managed to trace a parish record of her birth or their marriage.
When Catherine Roberts died in 1841 (just after the 1841 census - on 9 June), she rather surprisingly (given the low value of her belongings) left a will leaving everything to her daughter Catherine. The inventory amounted to her purse and apparel, furniture, one cow, one heifer, one sheep and one lamb which together were valued at £14 8s 0s! As far as I know, she and William had other children but I don't know what happened to them.
It is probably no more than coincidence that Zachariah has the same surname as Samuel's grandmother. He did however give Samuel his first opportunity to be a master of a boat, signed his application for a master's certificate (which I traced to the National Maritime Museum thanks to Reg Davies Welsh Mariners Index) and was present at his wedding. Another Roberts, Samuel Roberts this time, signed the application for Samuel's father in law's application for a master's certificate.
How very frustrating for you that there are no addresses given in your will. I went to Bangor last year and found the house that Samuel Hughes Griffith and his family had lived in - at least I think so. It had the right name and was in the right place, and I have a vague memory of being walked up the hill from Bangor to Garth Point by my nan in order to see it when I was about 9 or 10. It has an amazing view of the Straits and Port Penrhyn. Chilly and damp though especially in the winter.
I recall that Zachariah Roberts was baptised in the Calvinistic Methodist chapel at Llanllechid. There is a Calvinistic Methodist streak in Samuel Griffith's family too. His youngest daughter, Lizzie Miriam, married David Thomas at the Tabernacle Chapel in Bangor in 1891 (though I don't know which one - I gather the main chapel at this time was in Dean Street but there were other smaller sister chapels dotted around Bangor) and their first child, my nan, was born in the Carneddi School House, Llanllechid - which I did not manage to seek out last year sadly.
I wish you luck with finding your houses. I would like to find out more about Samuel Hughes Griffith's house - how it got built, who paid for it, that sort of thing, but I'm not sure where to start. Any ideas?
Cherrian
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hiraeth
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Hi Cherrian
Have you tried this site about Bangor?
http://www.bangorcivicsociety.org.uk/index.htm
You could also try the Caernarfon Record Office, Uni of Bangor, Archives Network Wales?
You could try a search on the North Wales Marriage Index for Catherine Roberts & William Hughes - might get the year and parish for further research?
I've looked through Robert Roberts will again so see if your Samuel is mentioned. He wrote the will in 1829 but did not die until January 1843. He mentions three children Thomas, Zacariah and Margaret. Have no luck tracing Thomas but FROM REREADING the will have just discovered Margaret married a Richard Williams who was most likely the Mariner who owned 50% of the EMILY along with Zacariah, according to the Port of Beaumaris book! (Margaret was the executrix of her father's will and described as Margaret wife of Richard Williams!) Thank you for the inspiration I see from the records that Richard died in 1852 and Margaret in 1859 I will have to do more digging
Heather
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukCARRINGTON, ROBERTS, WILLIAMS, FOULKES, WYNN, BLUNT, JONES Denbighshire. DAVIES, OWEN, JONES, WILLIAMS, THOMAS, EVANS, MORGAN, SOLOMAN, GRIFFITHS Caernarfonshire & Anglesey THATCHER, HILLIER, PARISH Surrey APPLETON, MALTHOUSE, GLOVER Hertfordshire MCDONALD & SOUPER Aberdeen c1800 |
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Cherrian
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Hi Heather
Thanks for link to Bangor Civic Society. Great site.
Re Robert Roberts. I did another IGI search on parents R R and Ann Pierce and tried both Llanllechid and Bangor Calvinistic Methodist chapels. To my surprise, Zachariah and sister Margaret show up in both. And a third sister - Ann - shows up in Bangor only. Might Thomas be Ann's husband?
Cherrian
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