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Author Topic: Hypothetically speaking  (Read 476 times)
Gene Genius
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Hypothetically speaking
« on: Wednesday 16 April 08 14:29 BST (UK) »
You know your great grandmother's name from family folklore and also from her marriage certificate.

It would seem she was born c 1858 in Ruthin. Her father's name was Edward.

So you search through the censuses from 1861 onwards and you find ONE  girl with this name born in Ruthin and yes she happens to have a father called Edward.  You put two and two together and now you have the name of her mother also and her brothers and sisters.

You fill out your tree.

Many months later someone contacts you from GR saying that she has a woman with the same name born in the Ruthin area at that time but she went to work as a servant in London and married a Londoner so you (ME) must be completely wrong.

How do I establish that my young woman is my actual great grandmother when there were TWO of them, one born in Ruthin and one a few miles away both in the same year and both with a father with the same Christian name?

I know I could go to the expense of ordering the two birth certificates ( I don't want to do that) but how would they help if the two father's names are the same?
« Last Edit: Wednesday 16 April 08 14:34 BST (UK) by Berlin-Bob » Logged
Wrexham, Ruthin - Wales, East Bradenham - Norfolk, Burley in Wharfedale - Yorkshire, Greenock Area - Renfrewshire, Scotland
kizmiaz
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Re: HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 16 April 08 14:39 BST (UK) »
Do any of the witnesses on the marriage certificate share the same name? They could be brothers or sisters which could help to identify the correct person

What about the fathers occupation? If you have a census return for him with the same occupation, this may narrow things down.

[I've got the same thing with another tree on Ancestry showing my great-grandfather emigrating to America and then dying in France, when he actually died in hospital in England without ever leaving his home town. I know this as much as it is possible to know anything in family history (original Marriage cert., death cert witnessed by his wife, etc), but I don't have the heart to tell the other person and destroy their illusions.]

Glen
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wrjones
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Re: Hypothetically speaking
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 16 April 08 14:40 BST (UK) »
You say you have the Marriage Certificate?Are there any clues to the rest of her family from the witnesses?

Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
Wrexham.
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Census Information Is Crown Copyright,from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Gene Genius
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Re: Hypothetically speaking
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 16 April 08 14:47 BST (UK) »
Right, well, my great grandad was Edward Williams a Joiner and his wife Sarah Davies. Edward's father was Thomas Williams a Joiner and I have managed to go back several generations with this.

Sarah's father was also Edward and he was a Nailor.

The witnesses were Edward and Hannah Davies (Huh)

The wedding took place on March 9th 1879 in Llanrhydd Church.

I am happy with what I have found it so far but this other person is being rather judgemental.
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Gene Genius
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Re: Hypothetically speaking
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 16 April 08 14:50 BST (UK) »
By the way I have located and photographed Edward and Sarah's grave which is in the churchyard where they were married. It is in very good order.

My great grandad died very young and is listed as Edward Williams Joiner - Bless him!

His widow went on to live for many years and never remarried although there is yet another mystery I have to solve.
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Gadget
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Re: Hypothetically speaking
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 16 April 08 15:15 BST (UK) »
Have you followed up the witnesses - Edward and Hannah Davies - they could be relatives of Sarah.

Also, do their children's names give any clues - they could have named them after family member's etc.

Gadget
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Gene Genius
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Re: Hypothetically speaking
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 16 April 08 15:23 BST (UK) »
Sarah had a brother called Edward but I have yet to find a name for his wife.

Also, at one time when Sarah was a widow there was a Hannah living next door to her but she was born out of the area.
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wrjones
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Re: Hypothetically speaking
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 16 April 08 15:34 BST (UK) »
Brother Edward was unmarried in 1881 still at home.That is if Sarah was the daughter of Edward and Gwen Davies?

Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
Wrexham.
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Jones,Griffiths.Stephens,Parry,Gabriel,Conway,Hughes,Evans,Roberts,Lea,Hanmer.Peake,Edwards.Newnes,Davies.
All North Wales.
Conway,Durber,Cartlidge,Lovatt,Bebington.Brindley,Sankey,Brunt.Dean.Clewes.Rhodes.
All Stoke-on-Trent.
Francis-Nantwich Cheshire.
Dennell-Cheshire/Staffordshire.
Census Information Is Crown Copyright,from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Gaie
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Re: Hypothetically speaking
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 16 April 08 15:44 BST (UK) »
There is a Sarah born c1858 with father Edward, brazier, mother Gwen, in the 1861 & 1871 census.  Also in this household are brothers Edward & John (looks like twins) born c1865, Thomas born c 1841, Elleanor c1845 and Elizabeth c1847.  So this is the family I presume your Sarah comes from.  Braziers and nailors are in a similar occupation.

There is a Sarah Jane Davies born c1856 in the 1861 census; mother Margaret is listed as head, married, a potter and china shopkeeper's wife; there's a sister Hannah c1843, but no father is in the house.  Again in the 1871 Sarah A with mother Margaret listed as a widow, potter.

I think you need to get a birth certificate which will show her mother's names - hopefully Gwen!

Have you checked the parish registers?
Kind regards
Gaie

Sorry, got Edward & John's birth year wrong - should be c1855
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Sussex, Burwash/Somerset/South London: PANKHURST/FABLING/GREEN/KING/PARROT/POPE/PEMBROKE
Notts/Leics/London: POLLARD/BELAND/FELLS/MORRISON/MARYSON/CLARKE
Northants: MARRIOT/T
Suffolk: LINGLY/LINGLEY/LINDLY/LINDLEY/ SEAGER /SIGGER/SEGGAR/VINCE
Gloucs: WINDOW Glamorgan: JENKINS Cardiganshire: JONES
Poland: KLARKOWSKI/OZIEMKIEWICZ France: LINETTE
Gaie
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Re: Hypothetically speaking
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 16 April 08 15:54 BST (UK) »
Another thought:  what was Sarah's address on the marriage certificate?  The censuses show the family to be 27 Well Street for what is hopefully your Sarah, and Clwyd Street for the daughter of Margaret the potter.

Gaie
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Sussex, Burwash/Somerset/South London: PANKHURST/FABLING/GREEN/KING/PARROT/POPE/PEMBROKE
Notts/Leics/London: POLLARD/BELAND/FELLS/MORRISON/MARYSON/CLARKE
Northants: MARRIOT/T
Suffolk: LINGLY/LINGLEY/LINDLY/LINDLEY/ SEAGER /SIGGER/SEGGAR/VINCE
Gloucs: WINDOW Glamorgan: JENKINS Cardiganshire: JONES
Poland: KLARKOWSKI/OZIEMKIEWICZ France: LINETTE
Gene Genius
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Re: Hypothetically speaking
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 16 April 08 16:02 BST (UK) »
Sarah's address at marriage was 16 Llanrhydd Street
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Wrexham, Ruthin - Wales, East Bradenham - Norfolk, Burley in Wharfedale - Yorkshire, Greenock Area - Renfrewshire, Scotland
Paul
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Re: Hypothetically speaking
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 17 April 08 17:30 BST (UK) »
Hello Gene, I don't know if any of this might help?

Ruthin marriage Dec 1 1877.
Edward Davies. fullage. bachelor. Nailer. Clwyd St. father, Edward. Occ, Nailer.
Sarah Jane Davies. fullage. Spinster. Clwyd St. father. Thomas. Occ, Potter?
Witnesses. Edward Williams and Sarah Davies Smiley

Llanrhydd baptisms. children of Edward and Sarah Williams. abode, looked to me like Llanfair St. fathers Occ, Joiner.
Sep 7 1879  Wink Edward Thomas.
April 15 1883. John.

I'll be back later with more.

Paul.
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