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Author Topic: Hayward/ Gloucestershire (Help please)  (Read 495 times)
fm
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Hayward/ Gloucestershire (Help please)
« on: Thursday 17 April 08 10:18 BST (UK) »
Hi Rootschatters. Huh

Looking for help with a marriage somewhere between1855-1880 i am presuming in Gloucestershire. At the moment have reached a dead end.
Thomas Hayward born circa 1842 at Quenington, Gloucestershire married Mary Ann Scott born circa 1837, Cheltenham, Gloucestershire.
Thomas was the son of William and Martha Hayward of Quenington, Gloucestershire. Mary Ann was the daughter of William and Louisa Scott of Cheltenham, Gloucestershire.
1881 census shows Thomas and Mary Ann Hayward living in Cheltenham, Gloucestershire at 3 Beauford Cottages. Theie marital status was married but have been unable to find a marriage between a Thomas Hayward and Mary Ann Scott in any records. Their children George, William and Sarah Ann were also recorded with them.
Have her death certificate stating that her name before marriage was formerly Scott. Its a mystery.
Any suggestions welcome. Cheers Smiley
« Last Edit: Thursday 17 April 08 15:08 BST (UK) by fm » Logged
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Re: Hayward/ Gloucestershire
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 17 April 08 10:22 BST (UK) »
Hi

The 1881 shows a gap in ages between William (16) and Mary (9) so I would guess this is a second marriage

As Mary Ann is older than Thomas then I'm guessing Mary was married before.

Unlikely she was Scott when she married Thomas - that would be her birth surname and she would have married under her previous married name
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Re: Hayward/ Gloucestershire
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 17 April 08 10:28 BST (UK) »
Hi both  Smiley

They are already shown as married in 1871, with a daughter Charlotte age 13 born Cheltenham. Back in 1861, there's a Charlotte Scott age 3 with (mother?) Mary Ann Scott in Cheltenham so we may be looking for a marriage between 1861 and 1871  Smiley
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Re: Hayward/ Gloucestershire
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 17 April 08 10:37 BST (UK) »
Thank you both. Much appreciated. Had already considered it may be a second marriage for her but if she were married and widowed between two census have no idea who to. Also i had found her with her daughter in the census you refer to. After Mary Ann married Thomas Haywood, Charlotte also changed her name to Hayward in a later census.. Mary Ann Scott was with her grandparents in the 1851 and 1861 census.
There are so many Mary Ann Scotts. If she wasnt married as that name she may have married as Mary Scott or Ann Scott. Have tried concentrating on Thomas Haywards in Gloucestershire in all the search sites but have found nothing. Where can I go now. Huh
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Re: Hayward/ Gloucestershire
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 17 April 08 10:45 BST (UK) »
have you got any of the post 1864 kids Birth Certs - wondered what sequence of names that Mary Ann might be using then ?

The ost obvious marriage of a Thomas H would be that 1864 Cheltenham one ..... but then again was his name also Edward ?
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

PLEDGER – 1678, Gt BardField, Essex
EVERETT - 1830, Scoles, Norfolk & Epping, SX
OSGATHORPE - 1825, North Kensington
LILLEY – 1711, Ickleton, Cambs
DAVISON – 1700-1710, Horncastle & Coningsby, Lincs
BOWER – 1690-1700, Killinworth, Lincs
CHASE – 1735, Kings Lynn, Norfolk
LAIRD – 1777, Portsmouth, Hants & Kings Lynn, Norfolk
GOWENLOCK – 1850, Carlisle
KEW – 1814, Carlisle
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Re: Hayward/ Gloucestershire
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 17 April 08 10:46 BST (UK) »
Hi

Having looked at the census entries I now doubt this was a second marriage for Mary

She was unmarried in 1861 and married by 1871.  Child after Sarah was b 1873/74.  The only marriage on freebmd that fits the time scale was to a Mary Ann Ivens in March qtr 1871 - not Mary Ann Scott - mmmmmmmmmm
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Re: Hayward/ Gloucestershire
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 17 April 08 11:32 BST (UK) »
Hi to you all. Thank you so so so much for being on the case.
Thomas was Thomas only and not Thomas Edward as established on his birth certificate  on 25th February 1841so not him.
Have the birth certificate of their daughter Sarah Ann Hayward on 16th November 1963 at 51 St Pauls St North, Cheltenham where it states mothers name as Mary Ann Hayward (formerley Scott) under maiden name. Another child born 14 years later Arthur George on 17th January at 1 Berkeley Passage, Cheltenham also has the same entry details for the mother as formerley Scott.
She was definately a Scott at the time of their marriage but where and when was it. Have tried all avenues over a ten year period but have drawn a blank. Help. Angry
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Re: Hayward/ Gloucestershire
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 17 April 08 11:36 BST (UK) »
assuming that you've trawled the full GRO Index, then you might just have to say they didnt marry !
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

PLEDGER – 1678, Gt BardField, Essex
EVERETT - 1830, Scoles, Norfolk & Epping, SX
OSGATHORPE - 1825, North Kensington
LILLEY – 1711, Ickleton, Cambs
DAVISON – 1700-1710, Horncastle & Coningsby, Lincs
BOWER – 1690-1700, Killinworth, Lincs
CHASE – 1735, Kings Lynn, Norfolk
LAIRD – 1777, Portsmouth, Hants & Kings Lynn, Norfolk
GOWENLOCK – 1850, Carlisle
KEW – 1814, Carlisle
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Re: Hayward/ Gloucestershire
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 17 April 08 12:00 BST (UK) »
But what if they did, Thats giving up. Not too good at that. Smiley Smiley Smiley
They lived in the St Mary's ecclesiastical parish of Cheltenham. There is a church there called St Mary's so am assuming they may have married there if they were Church of England. It is possible that they were of another denomination that may not have entered all their records on the databases yet. Have found no records on the IGI of any of their children being christened as yet. Could there be implications behind that. Might mean they werent married as you say and they couldnt have children christened. Doh  Sad
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Re: Hayward/ Gloucestershire
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 17 April 08 12:47 BST (UK) »
The IGI seems to be non-existent when it comes to records concerning Cheltenham. They appear not to have been transcribed for this area. No Christenings, deaths or marriages. Does anyone know the batch numbers for this area. In addition to the elusive marriage of Thomas Hayward and Mary Ann Scott would like to discover christenings of their children if poss.
They were Sarah Ann Hayward 1863(Have birth cert)
William Hayward 1865/1866 Cheltenham
Martha Louisa Hayward 1869/1873 Cheltenham
Mary Jane Hayward 21/11/1871 Cheltenham
Arthur George (Have birth cert)
Thanks again. Smiley
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Re: Hayward/ Gloucestershire
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 17 April 08 12:48 BST (UK) »
Hardly 'giving up' if you've exhausted the resources .... just another possibility to consider - and they would be far from being unique.

Whichever denomination they were, the period is within the Civil Regn act, so registers would have had to have been copied and quarterly summarised for the GRO.

So either - they didnt marry, or theres a BMD Index omission en route or at the GRO - not at all unusual    Wink
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

PLEDGER – 1678, Gt BardField, Essex
EVERETT - 1830, Scoles, Norfolk & Epping, SX
OSGATHORPE - 1825, North Kensington
LILLEY – 1711, Ickleton, Cambs
DAVISON – 1700-1710, Horncastle & Coningsby, Lincs
BOWER – 1690-1700, Killinworth, Lincs
CHASE – 1735, Kings Lynn, Norfolk
LAIRD – 1777, Portsmouth, Hants & Kings Lynn, Norfolk
GOWENLOCK – 1850, Carlisle
KEW – 1814, Carlisle
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Re: Hayward/ Gloucestershire
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 17 April 08 12:52 BST (UK) »
If you delve into the Familysearch site - look at the Catalog, it will ID what they have for Cheltenham - see if the records include more than whats been transcribed batch-wise.

If not, Google 'Cheltenham Parish Registers' to find the Archive location.


*Batch numbers from Hugh's site --  http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

PLEDGER – 1678, Gt BardField, Essex
EVERETT - 1830, Scoles, Norfolk & Epping, SX
OSGATHORPE - 1825, North Kensington
LILLEY – 1711, Ickleton, Cambs
DAVISON – 1700-1710, Horncastle & Coningsby, Lincs
BOWER – 1690-1700, Killinworth, Lincs
CHASE – 1735, Kings Lynn, Norfolk
LAIRD – 1777, Portsmouth, Hants & Kings Lynn, Norfolk
GOWENLOCK – 1850, Carlisle
KEW – 1814, Carlisle
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Re: Hayward/ Gloucestershire
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 17 April 08 12:54 BST (UK) »
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=localitydetails&subject=12524&subject_disp=England%2C+Gloucester%2C+Cheltenham&columns=*,0,0


amongst other records you could inspect at an LDS centre near you ... :-

Births and baptisms, 1812-1837  Wesleyan Church (Cheltenham, England)
Births and baptisms, 1819-1837  Countess of Huntingdon's Chapel (Cheltenham, Gloucestershire)

Births, baptisms and burials, 1810-1837  Independent Church. Highbury Chapel (Cheltenham)

Births, marriages and deaths for the monthly meeting at Cheltenham (Gloucester), 1665-1821  Society of Friends. Monthly Meeting of Gloucester, at Cheltenham (England)

Bishop's transcripts for Cheltenham, 1606-1812  Church of England. Parish Church of Cheltenham (Gloucestershire)

Cheltenham settlement examinations, 1815-1826  Gray, I. E. (Irvine Egerton)

Marriages at Cheltenham, 1588-1812  Church of England. Parish Church of Cheltenham (Gloucestershire)

Nonconformist registers  Gloucestershire Family History Society

Parish register transcripts, 1558-1682  Church of England. Parish Church of Cheltenham (Gloucestershire)

Parish register transcripts, 1825  Church of England. Parish Church of Cheltenham (Gloucestershire)

Parish registers for Christ Church, Cheltenham, 1865-1899  Church of England. Christ Church (Cheltenham, Gloucestershire).

Parish registers, 1845-1931  Church of England. St. Peter's Church (Cheltenham, Gloucestershire).

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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

PLEDGER – 1678, Gt BardField, Essex
EVERETT - 1830, Scoles, Norfolk & Epping, SX
OSGATHORPE - 1825, North Kensington
LILLEY – 1711, Ickleton, Cambs
DAVISON – 1700-1710, Horncastle & Coningsby, Lincs
BOWER – 1690-1700, Killinworth, Lincs
CHASE – 1735, Kings Lynn, Norfolk
LAIRD – 1777, Portsmouth, Hants & Kings Lynn, Norfolk
GOWENLOCK – 1850, Carlisle
KEW – 1814, Carlisle
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Re: Hayward/ Gloucestershire
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 17 April 08 14:36 BST (UK) »
Thanks for for the info. Have tried the suggested links but have still drawn a blank. Need to get access to St Mary's Church, Cheltenham parish records for the period 1837-1901 where I feel the mystery would then be solved.  It was the parish that they resided in the census.Researching from France so visits to Gloucestershire are few. If anyone has any further suggestions they would be greatly appreciated.
Smiley
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Re: Hayward/ Gloucestershire (Help please)
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 17 April 08 17:49 BST (UK) »
Hello fm

An email to Gloucestershire Family History Society may help.  The Society has transcribed a lot of the parish registers, marriages for the Cheltenham registration district is complete 1837-2004.

Have a look at their site for information
http://www.gfhs.org.uk/index.html

Regards

Susan  Smiley
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