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Topic: Help needed to find birth of Emily Robins 1864 - Richmond, Surrey (Read 2095 times)
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Valda
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This is the only Emma Robins I can find on either 1901 census index who fits some of the description you give. From the 1891 census she is possibly adjusting her age and this woman was perhaps older than she stated in 1901.
1901 census RG13 111 folio 139
5 Grt? Luke Street St Marylebone, London
Emma Robins 38 St Pancras, London, Head Single Teacher of Needlework
Can you give the details of the one you found born Richmond?
Regards
Valda
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katherinem
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Decided to take a break from the 1871 search  Started to look at deaths, there is a death registration in the qtr Jul/Aug Sep 1927 for a Emma S Fishlock, aged 65 (which would give a birth year of c1862), the registration district is Medway though 
Was also looking at Charles occupation on the marriage cert, and at one point thought the first word could be Farrier, but then Farrier keeper would make no sense. You could try contacting Fulham register office, who may be very kind and look at the original for you, I did this once with a death certificate and the register office very kindly let me know what was on their copy. Contact details are: http://www.lbhf.gov.uk/Directory/Community_and_Living/Birth_marriage_and_death/Homepage.asp
Regards,
Kath
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Bladen (Tipton, & Yorks), Teece, Cooke(Coalville), Stott (Staffs), Carr, Armitage, Henrickson, Lisle (Yorks), Pailing, Stott, Leach, Davies (Llanasa), Taylor, McDonald, Garry, Brackenbury, Brand, Rewston Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Valda
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There are no Emma S(any middle name) Fishlocks births registered in England and Wales circa 1860 on FreeBMD (bearing in mind Emma's sometimes turned into Emilys and vice versa). There is only one Fishlock marriage on FreeBMD to a potential Emma S also bearing in mind as the C20th wears on FreeBMD has less and less coverage and that not everyone getting married used both their 'Christian' names.
The marriage to an Emma S occurred in a Sussex registration district.
Marriages Sep 1892
FISHLOCK Richard Morris Westbourne 2b 745
FOSSEY Fred Westbourne 2b 745
FOSSEY Maria Rosettas Westbourne 2b 745
HOLMES Emma Sarah Westbourne 2b 745
It would be more likely that the Fosseys married the Fosseys. There is a Richard M and Emma S Fishlock on the 1901 census. They are in Rochester Kent, so in Medway registration district. Emma was aged 38 and born Aldenham Hertfordshire.
Aldenham registers in Watford registration district.
Births Dec 1861
HOLMES Emma Sarah Watford 3a 284
Regards
Valda
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Valda
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The other 'spare' Robins born Richmond Surrey is this man
Births Dec 1859
ROBINS George William Apps Richmond S. 2a 220
with his grandparents in Isleworth on the 1861 census as William and George with his grandfather in Isleworth in 1871.
Regards
Valda
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Valda
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If Emily is Emma Susan born 1861
EMMA SUSAN ROBINS
Birth: 03 MAY 1861
Christening: 04 AUG 1861 Saint John, Richmond, Surrey
Father: CHARLES EDWARD ROBINS
Mother: SARAH
then her father died in 1865 with her mother when she was 4
Deaths Dec 1865
Robins Edward Richmond S 2a 159
Robins Sarah Richmond S 2a 159
so not surprising that she may have been a little hazy on the details of his occupation, or there may be a possibility that Charles Edward changed occupations towards the end of his life.
Have you been able to find Emily's death registration or got any further with what might be her middle name?
Regards
Valda
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Valda
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You have established that this is Sarah's death from typhoid fever (which is infectious so you might expect anyone sharing a bed with her to be very vunerable to catching the same disease).
Deaths Dec 1865
Robins Sarah Richmond S 2a 159
Note that the page number for Edward Robins is identical which means these deaths were registered at the same time or extremely close to each other. You have also established that Sarah's husband was called Charles Edward.
Deaths Dec 1865
Robins Edward Richmond S 2a 159
CHARLES EDWARD ROBINS
Christening: 12 APR 1822 Uley, Gloucester
Father: WILLIAM ROBINS
Mother: ELIZABETH
EMMA SUSAN ROBINS
Birth: 03 MAY 1861
Christening: 04 AUG 1861 Saint John, Richmond, Surrey
Father: CHARLES EDWARD ROBINS
Mother: SARAH
When both parents have died and the family is in turmoil (with possibly other family members ill or in fear of becoming ill) you might expect in the rush to register the deaths and get the bodies buried there may have been a mistake made in the name of Charles Edward when registering his death, particularly since the deaths were probably registered by a local woman who had been employed to nurse the couple/family and not by one of their children.
You have also established that Charles Edward and Sarah Robins son's Charles had no second name (though an E for a middle name does appear on one census entry - 1891 but on no others 1851 and 1861). His birth was registered only as Charles as was his death.
Births Dec 1846
Robins Charles Kensington 3 295
Age out slightly but this is very likely to be Charles' death. There are no other candidates for this death registration.
Deaths Jun 1892
Robins Charles 42 Richmond, S. 2a 217
Emily/Emma Susan is missing from one census only, the 1871 census. Therefore you can't really say that if a person is missing off one census (and many people are missed off - they reckon up to half a million single men may have managed to not get themselves included on the 2001 census) that she is well hidden in childhood. One record of where somebody slept on one night doesn't constitute well hidden, irritating though the omission is.
Emma Susan's birth was registered and she was baptised. If there is an Emily besides an Emma Susan then she has no birth or baptism and no existence in records until the 1881 census. Emma Susan on the otherhand if she is not Emily, has no recorded existence after her birth and baptism.
Censuses are fraught with errors. The census enumerator came round and left a household schedule with each household to fill in if they could. If anyone in the household could write and they had something to write with they had a go at filling it in. The census enumerator came back and if the piece of paper hadn't by then been lost it was handed over. The census enumerator had a quick look to see if he could read it (or most of it). If he needed to make amendments or have it written in the first place he wrote it up with whoever was available in the household at the time. Having done this for a great many households the enumerator went home and began copying out the household schedules (in candlelight in 1871) as best he could into the census enumerators' book. He tried his best to copy what had been written but it would have been time consuming and tedious and he would suffer from tiredness. The census books and the original household schedules were then sent away to the Registrar General. The houshold schedules were destroyed (from the 1911 census onwards there was no copying and only the household schedules were collected and sent off).
Emma Robins in Marylebone in 1901 may very well have been massaging her age down or her age is not correctly recorded in the census enumerator's book.
1891 census RG12 393 folio 57
6 Oakden Street Lambeth
Emma Robins 57 Head Widow Herts N K
Emma Robins 35 Daughter Single Art and fancy work St Pancras London
Ellen Robins 32 Daughter Single Art and fancy work Greenwich Kent
Percival H Robins 19 Son Agent Provident Association St Pancras London
plus two boarders
1881 census Emma and Ellen's status is given as daughters but this is likely to be a mistake for nieces as they are not with their parents who are in Greenwich (RG11 720 folio 134) but with the Fisher family. On the 1871 census they are with their family in Pancras and their grandmother Sarah Fisher. Emma in 1871 is a fancy trimmer maker aged 15 (RG10 220 folio 75) and Ellen her sister's birthplace returns back to Kent. On the 1861 census the family were in Kent (RG10 398 folio 118) where Ellen was wrongly recorded as Sarah.
1881 census RG11 204 folio 63
11 Platt Street Pancras
Emma Robbins 25 Daughter Single Dresser mantle trimming maker St Pancras Middlesex
Ellen Robbins 22 Daughter Upholsteress trimming maker St Pancras Middlesex
Births Jun 1856
Robbins Emma Sarah Pancras 1b 77
or
Births Mar 1857
Robins Emma Jane Pancras 1b 94
Births Mar 1858
Robbins Ellen Greenwich 1d 599
'Have you been able to find Emily's death registration or got any further with what might be her middle name?'
Have you searched further for Emily/Emma Fishlock's death registration? Have you any further evidence of her full name from for instance her other children's birth certificates?
Regards
Valda
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littlefishlock
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you Valda that was an incredibly informative post/lesson and is well appreciated. 
I totally see where your coming from with regards to census entries.
Sarah Robins Death certificate, died 30th November 1865 aged 46 years. Wife of Charles Robins (ostler) lived/ died at 9 Bottons Row, Richmond, Informant was an Amelia Ealmes (present at death) Littleworth End, Mortlake, Surrey.(cause of death Typhoid fever)
I have noted that it does not give Charles Robins as deceased, so with only one month to the end of that year, maybe he didn't die in 1865? On Sarahs death certificate she is referred to wife of not widow of.
Their son Edward died 21 november 1865 age 16. again, son of Charles Robins (Ostler). he died at 9 Bottons Row, Richmond, and the informant was Emma Brown (present at death) 8 Bottons Row, Richmond.
I imagine the other children of the house may have been moved out.... but why would the nextdoor neighbour risk catching it herself?
We dont have all of Emily's childrens birth certificate, but those we have do not show a middle name.
We have searched for births and deaths of emma/emily robins and fishlock with no luck so far.
It is looking more and more like Emma and Emily are the same.
Deaths Jun 1892
Robins Charles 42 Richmond, S. 2a 217 - I will check this out.
Thanks again Valda. you've been really kind and patient, and have an excellent way with explaining things. 
Kind Regards
Chrissi
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Fishlock - Chiswick - Isleworth - (lightermen), Whitchurch Hampshire
Robins - Uley, Gloucester and Richmond London
Hamilton - Rogers - Kent
Robinson - Monmouthshire - Worcestershire
Chivers - Monmouthshire.
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Pages: 1 2 [3] 4
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and Valda for naming the 'spare' ROBINS.