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Topic: william baker - I'm stuck - Can anyone help? (Read 255 times)
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kevinbrian
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 70
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi All,
I've asked about this ancestor before, but now have a bit more information.
My 3G Grandfather, William Baker, was according to the 1851 census was born in "Kenterbury" around 1809. In the 1861 census his place of birth is given as Dover. He died in 1861 so no further information from censuses. I have found his marriage entry (to Mary Clarke on Christmas Day 1828) in in the Parish Register for St. Pancras Old Church at the LMA. The witnesses were Thomas Newton and Ann Stroud.
I have assumed (dangerous I know!) that "Kenterbury" may just be referring to Kent in general and that his actual birthplace is Dover.
I have found an IGI entry for a William Baker, baptised 3/5/1811 at St. Mary the Virgin in Dover (Parents are Thomas & Sarah Baker). Having found the names of the witnesses at the marriage I tried searching for them in IGI and found a Thomas Newton and an Ann Stroud both born in Dover in 1815. However in the 1851 census there is a Thomas Newton born in 1819 in Huntingdonshire living in St. Pancras.
Is there anything I can find that will "prove" (or disprove!) the link between the William that got married in St. Pancras in 1828, and the William that was born in Dover in 1811.
Any help really appreciated!!!
Kevin
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tazzie
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 3852
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For Kenterbury....how about Canterbury?
Tazzie
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Liscoe -all Green/Simpson/Underwood-Beds Walker/Foulkes/Fookes/Fooks/Hedges/Lamborne-Bucks. Stanton/Pattrick/Cooper/Fitzjohn/Holland/Spalding-London Rewallin/Underwood -Devon Casbolt-London/Cambridge Favell/Favel - Lincs-Beds This information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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tazzie
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 3852
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There is a member submitted entry for St Mildreds Canterbury in 1809
father William mother Elizabeth.
Maybe worth a post for a look up in St Mildreds to get it checked.
Tazzie
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Liscoe -all Green/Simpson/Underwood-Beds Walker/Foulkes/Fookes/Fooks/Hedges/Lamborne-Bucks. Stanton/Pattrick/Cooper/Fitzjohn/Holland/Spalding-London Rewallin/Underwood -Devon Casbolt-London/Cambridge Favell/Favel - Lincs-Beds This information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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BettyofKent
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 609
Planet Zog - The next place to look
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Baptism St Mildred Canterbury
8th January 1809
William Baker
Parents: William & Elizabeth
Betty
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KENT: Stutely - Wittersham & Stone Padgham - Wittersham Wanstall - Northbourne Taylor - Ringwould & Ash Skinner - Deal Bushell - Walmer Cornwell - Ash, Sandwich, Wingham Dennis - Eastry & Dover Fagg - Elmstone Laurence - Northbourne & Betteshanger Relf - Kent & Sussex Also Funnell - Sussex Schloss - Nottingham & Massachusetts Cohen - Birmingham "Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov. |
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kevinbrian
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 70
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks Betty and Tazzie,
This is another possible line of enquiry.
I'm still tempted to think that he was actually born in Dover. I think "Kenterbury" probably just means Kent. The way its written it looks as if Canterbury was initially put down and the word Kent has been overwritten. My "gut feeling" is that Thomas and Sarah are the parents. However I really want to find something that will tie the William in St. Pancras to the William in Kent.
Kevin
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wdurham
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 183
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Kevin -
I had a look at that 1851 census listing, which shows them living at 18 Little Camden St in St Pancras, with children as follows
George Baker 15
Samuel Baker 14 (I think this should be 11 from viewing the image)
William Baker 14
Caroline Baker 8
Frederick Baker 4
Alfred Baker 1
It also shows William as 43, born in Kenterbury, the K of which has been altered to a C, and Mary 41 b Bethnal Green. All children were born in St Pancras. "Kenterbury" is probably a simple error because the enumerator couldn't spell it. He couldn't spell "Surry" either!
In 1841 they are also in Little Camden St, St Pancras, with an eldest daughter Eliza aged 10 as well as the older children from the 1851 list. William is listed as being 4 years old as you would expect, but Samuel is only 5 months, so I think the 1851 age IS 11 years old (as per my above note), not 14. And, a real bonus, living with them is Elizabeth Clark, aged 65 - probably Mary's mother. William Snr is listed as NOT born in county.
That ties this Kent-born William in with the marriage to Mary Clarke in St Pancras.
by 1861, William is Dover-born. But that could be a simple error, especially if Mary was the one providing the info to the enumerator whilst William was away from the house at work. Dover may have been the only place Mary knew in Kent!
So the William living in Little Camden Street for all those years was almost certainly the William from Kent that married Mary Clarke in St Pancras. But was he born in Canterbury or Dover?
Casalguidi seems to have ruled out the Dover guy from 1811, and also, William's birth year is pretty consistent in the three census returns at 1808 or 1809, so you are left with William baptised at St Mildreds, Canterbury in 1809.
Hope this helps!
Wendy
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Willson & Pell in Faversham, Egerton, Folkestone in Kent
Cornhill in Kent, Devon and Wokingham, Berks
Cadmans & Kings in Isleham, Cambs
Swan, Gregory, Smith & Mingay in the Burrough Green/Westley area of Cambs
Armstrong & Chandler in Bedford
Abbott/Abbit in Witham, Essex
Davies/Davis in Islington & Hackney
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kevinbrian
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 70
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi All,
Apologies for not replying earlier - I've been away for a couple of weeks and had to put the family history on hold!
It does indeed seem that I can eliminate the Dover birth (and Dover being the only place in Kent someone could think of sounds very plausible - There's a whole book to be written about the vagaries of census birthplaces!!).
I have all the data from censuses and other records from London (including Elizabeth Clarke - theres a record in IGI for Mary's birth to an Elizabeth - no father listed so probably another illegitimacy to add to the list! - so we are definitely looking at the right family.
So it looks reasonable to assume that the St. Mildred's guy is the one!
Thank you very much indeed everyone - I was beginning to think I'd hit a premature (I like to think I should be able to get back to the late 18th Century!) brick wall.
Kevin
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