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Topic: Chipping Norton Parish - B, M, D. - PHILLIPS, Kingham (Read 539 times)
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melcir.meri
RootsChat Member
 Offline
Posts: 130
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I am trying to sort out between 2 William PHILLIPS,
both born 1820 - one at Kingham, one whose family
bought land at Kingham, n.d. given.
I would like to know who had land at Kingham with
PHILLPS surname. I would also like to know if many
PHILLIPS families lived at KINGHAM, circa 1800-69.
I have not checked any Parish Records, but see that
a John PHILLIPS, sr., had land at KINGHAM in 1873.
There is also mention of a Sir Geo PHILLIPS, as
owning an amount of land on Kingham Hill. And there
is a hint that a William PHILLIPS owned land at
Kingham. So ... what resources come into play, and
can I resolve any of my queries? Postal Directories
would help -- which years are available, please?
If I'm asking questions in the wrong department,
just let me know where I need to ask. Thanks
- Mel
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Phillips - ENGLAND - Kingham [Chipping Norton?], Oxon.; plus St George Hanover Square, Westminster;
Plus USA - Madison, Lake Co., Ohio; & CANADA - Alberta.
Mitchell - WALES - Anglesey - Beaumaris, & SCOTLAND, Berwickshire - Edrom; plus Roxburghshire - Lilliesleaf.
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melcir.meri
RootsChat Member
Offline
Posts: 130
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Silvery
That's just sent me to review our old corres.
What I'm looking for is land ownership, local
records, Parish records, not national birth
marr., records. We still cannot be sure which
persons we deal with and want to clarify.
With 2 people with the same name in the
same area, its v. tricky. How can we tell?
- Mel
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Phillips - ENGLAND - Kingham [Chipping Norton?], Oxon.; plus St George Hanover Square, Westminster;
Plus USA - Madison, Lake Co., Ohio; & CANADA - Alberta.
Mitchell - WALES - Anglesey - Beaumaris, & SCOTLAND, Berwickshire - Edrom; plus Roxburghshire - Lilliesleaf.
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Arranroots
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 9376
~ Grand Aunt Jenny ~
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Hello Mel
As Silvery points out, with the invaluable assistance of Deb it has demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt which William is yours, based on the information that you gave.
RootsChatters are more than happy to help - even spending their own money on occasion to assist you. Please ensure that once the facts have been established you don;t keep going over the same ground - it is unfair and even costly to duplicate effort.
The best thing is to give as much detail as possible about what you already know and if you want further information from other sources it then becomes easier to focus on what is required.
RootsChat relies on the goodwill of the people who help here!
Many thanks for your understanding.
Kind regards, Arranroots 
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS WIL: WEBB, SALTER RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY, BOYLE (DUNDALK) |
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melcir.meri
RootsChat Member
Offline
Posts: 130
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Oh dear, oh dear. ... Did I somehow enter the
forest of gloom? ... Which is the way back to the
land of light fun and happy endings?
I have amply [I hope] indicated how wonderful
the help of Roots chatters has been in the midst
of so many confusions.
I am simply concerned that my own ancestor may
have been 'fudging', and wish to ferret out the
real number of his wives and descent lines via his
children.
Those missing years [which neatly fit the descent
group we had earlier been tracking to a 'T'], can
NOT be discarded, until we find the missing years
elsewhere. If there are death certs. this would
help. But we also need other indications. Debs,
where did you get the information on the move
to India? -- I could find nothing ... There must be
records -- but you did not yet name them. How
did you find and track the 2 sons of the Wm.
and Josephine pair? -- Is there a death cert.
recorded for any of these people? Or are there
marriages, etc., for the sons? Where does the
trail run cold? I have nothing to help me find any
of them -- without some official info. to enable
me to continue this line. I also put up some info
on the Phillips - Frogley line, Have you seen
it? I hoped you would help me piece this into
the mix.
My thought is that land records, Directories, plus
Parish Records of births, marriages, and deaths
may add new evidence in tracing local church
attendance, via baptisms, etc., to help resolve
what happened in the missing years, so that it
is obvious what happened here.
I imagine there are many here who have run
with a gut feeling, to put a matter to rest. If you
can show me how to dig out the unexpected, I
hope we can solve a puzzle that does not yet fit.
I have an honorable goal -- to learn what became
of this line of my family, plus how my gt-grandfather
got separated from his daughter, and what became
of his 2nd/3rd wife/wives, and his families. Is there
a living line of descendants?
I am trying to trace forward, to Wm.'s descendants
by his earlier wife/wives, but cannot achieve this
without details of the next generation, both these
assumed ones who are yet to be found, and the
'contested' ones who also remain untraced. Are
death details available ... ?
The journey is thus very much alive, and awaits
a fresh breakthrough which I do not know how to
achieve unless the roots group is able to help me
forward with the wonderful gusto we had going
earlier ....
As I did not ask anyone to buy certificates, nor did
I accuse anyone of anything --- I was asked to
identify if the cert. snippet on screen was of my
family -- and I simply replied to Debs that I could
NOT identify my ancestors from that snippet, as
the names showing were only from the side of
the family we had not yet confirmed, ie. I had no
ref. point by which to affirm them.
However as Debbie next did kindly forward me the
whole info privately, I then wrote publicly that
I was now able to accept the details as definitely
pertaining to my family.
I do hope Debbie will affirm this, and see that I had
no illwill at any stage, and wish nothing more than
that she will enjoy to come back aboard, renewed
in her previous good spirits, and to continue our
journey as we had all been greatly enjoying earlier.
I am limited in my knowledge of available resources,
and also get exhausted working always alone, as
we all need friends, love and support when we have
a difficult challenge to master.
It is the data given in the materials which I question,
not the truth of Debbie's own queries ... My great
grandfather did not give his correct age, so it begs
the question if he could also have given other
information incorrectly. Debbie, I have no argument
with the precious kindness of your unexpected
presentation of this information -- and I hope you
will affirm that I wrote privately to you, on this.
At no time did I say anything negative of your
sweet kindness, and it really is too bad that there
was a misreading here of what I was saying.
I would also like to affirm that I have found Debbie
to be a great champion of my quest, and hope this
will continue as it is help which is invaluable to me.
- Mel
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Phillips - ENGLAND - Kingham [Chipping Norton?], Oxon.; plus St George Hanover Square, Westminster;
Plus USA - Madison, Lake Co., Ohio; & CANADA - Alberta.
Mitchell - WALES - Anglesey - Beaumaris, & SCOTLAND, Berwickshire - Edrom; plus Roxburghshire - Lilliesleaf.
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melcir.meri
RootsChat Member
Offline
Posts: 130
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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As far as I can see the Phillips - Frogley family don't
appear to have left England. Or did I miss something,
as I feel ABSOLUTELY no affinity with this 'connection'.
If we use common sense, we should be encouraged
to diligently consider facts - without loud persons
jumping in out of nowhere, yelling that we should
go home now, just when a difficult point of history
needs teasing -- without kindness being removed
from the barn. Surely to God this is not a tolerable
way to proceed? I do not like rudeness, nor could
expect such a situation, in the midst of what we all
know is an uncompleted lookup. It is threatening,
and puts this Roots chat process in question.
There is a real mystery here. But, if you make new
people feel threatened newcomers will be unwilling
to participate. In an open world, businesses would
fail, if permitted to take cheap shots at newcomers.
The PHILLIPS of Chip. Nort. family travelled to Ohio.
How do I find if the others did also? Please, do not
desert this quest. I do not wish to, nor should I
need to desist -- I neither asked for, nor expect any
money transaction, and explained that I am virtually
housebound, plus the govt. here makes a nightmare
of form completing by personal visit, to transfer funds
overseas ...
We are a goodwill people, are we not? We believe
in doing the right thing, and being helpful?
I would love to know if my ancestor did strive to
appear to belong to this other family? --- What did
become of his wife/wives and children of his earlier
family/ies? Has some misdemeanour occured, which
he was made to feel guilty for, whether or not
deserved? --- Was he made to suffer, or did he do
something wrong? Does anyone agree that this
situation is worth examining?
Should I just walk away shaking my head?
I am trying to find my relatives, for goodness sake.
... I guess we all get tested by God ....
I will unsub if you do not wish me to be here ... But
would you also have God unsub? - if you choose not
behave as noble souls? I do not imagine this has
been done to you, so perhaps you have no idea how
vexed and stressed this is making me? It is not a
place I would wish on any of you, nor would I silently
tolerate it, if some big bully should jump in from behind
a bush, and decide to play rough with a visitor in my
garden.
Any of you could break this group silence, by telling
the bully to back off. Even the bully could apologize
for the intrusion on my enquiry, a new person, in such
an agressive, ill-informed, and unkind way. But the
situation suggests this is how God tests us .... - Mel
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Phillips - ENGLAND - Kingham [Chipping Norton?], Oxon.; plus St George Hanover Square, Westminster;
Plus USA - Madison, Lake Co., Ohio; & CANADA - Alberta.
Mitchell - WALES - Anglesey - Beaumaris, & SCOTLAND, Berwickshire - Edrom; plus Roxburghshire - Lilliesleaf.
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adle
Selective
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 65
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Nurse!
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Berlin-Bob
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 5160
by My Daughter. Chatting to find her Roots !
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Hi Mel,
Nobody is bullying you, but I fear you are bullying us, by trying to suggest we are all unfeeling, unhelpful, etc.
Many RootsChatters go out of their way to help, and many, many "noble souls" go the extra mile, sometimes even using their own subscriptions (i.e. their own money) and resources to help others.
Unfortunately, not all the information we are seeking is on the internet, and there comes a point in everyone's research, where we have to pay for certificates and other documentary evidence.
The RootsChatters have done what they could, if any new information comes up, I am sure they will inform you.
What you call "unwarranted, dreadful silence and seeming indifference, and negative behaviour here?" probably just means that nobody has found any new information for you.
regards,
Bob
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Searching for Coleman, Moore, Kallnung in London; Margulies, Remenyi in E. Europe; Ancestors of Hessie Stevenson-Coleman-Baxter (Ireland, 1861) and, of course, any other ancestors for my web-site. All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk) |
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melcir.meri
RootsChat Member
Offline
Posts: 130
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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As I said earlier, I am a newcomer to your system.
Before it was friendly and relaxed.
When Debbie chose to buy some unrequested
certificate, there was an abrupt change in hers
and others behavior. It was clearly an ill-advised
action. I refuse to be blamed for it, or expected
to pay for it. I have explained ad nauseum that
I am virtually housebound, and it is a difficult
process, which I tried to accomplish 2 years ago
but my bank could not process the request, and
said that the govt. does not want funds transferred
overseas, and that I must fill out several forms.
It all sounded like a ridiculous nightmare, so I do
not wish to go through it again. Debbie, I do think
it is time you accepted that it was not my fault ...
as Silvery and others seem to think I am involved
in your action, which I am not. IT is too bad of you
to leave them believing this. It is also not a good
sign, to find senior [male?] authority figures with
a bent to blame me ... As if the blame game is
worth bothering with. It would be helpful if
managerial level individuals would realign your
self-monitoring to avoid turning newcomer
confusion into an 'I'm out of here' feeling. As if
anyone would come back, if you can't see the
absurdity of your above remarks to me. - Mel
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Phillips - ENGLAND - Kingham [Chipping Norton?], Oxon.; plus St George Hanover Square, Westminster;
Plus USA - Madison, Lake Co., Ohio; & CANADA - Alberta.
Mitchell - WALES - Anglesey - Beaumaris, & SCOTLAND, Berwickshire - Edrom; plus Roxburghshire - Lilliesleaf.
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silvery
RootsChat Aristocrat
Offline
Posts: 1481
information Crown Copyright, from www.nation
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Just out of interest - what country do you live in?
It was Debbie's decision to purchase the details from Scotland's People, as she wanted verification for internet information.
It really isn't much use piecing together bits and pieces from the internet and attempting to join them up with wishful thinking. Debbie was obtaining verification to substantiate the train of events.
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melcir.meri
RootsChat Member
Offline
Posts: 130
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Finally.
My point is that Deb was happy, and was having a lot
of fun. This happiness vanished after she got the cert.
I don't feel right about the document. The two Wm.s
would likely know one another as they lived so near.
If Wm P-F died young, Wm P-H could then claim to be
Wm. P-F, if he wished to remain anonymous.
I have no idea why he would do this, and I don't know
if this is what happened. -- This is what I wish to learn.
If I am to move forward to the children of Wm., I need
to know where his wife died, and if there are descent
lines from his sons. If he was a Phillips-Frogley, and
not a Phillips-Huckvale, surely we'll find his history,
via the census, and follow his family birth to death,
with hopefully ongoing progeny. Where did they live,
die?
Do they too have links with Ohio, or the USA?
To find my relatives, I must locate the next generation
-- the lives of the children of Wm. and Josephine [and
perhaps too of the Chipping Norton Wm. P-H]. I do
feel a real affinity with that group, so let's not check
the P-F forbears until we're sure of the real lineage.
But I want to know what became of Wm. P-Fs sons in
India and UK? -- Deb found some data on this. Where
are the records, please, if we need to refer to them,
to check for further details?
Deb also found data that the contested W P-H kin
group via Charles, all went to North America. How
do I follow up on that? It's doc. refs I need, to see
if there is more information available as a new trail.
I don't know what you look up, but you have a
system, so I ask for help on this.
Re the Phillips-Frogley parents, if he was really
their son, surely they would go to the USA, as
Charles and his family did.
If the P-Frog. group also migrated, did they settle
in US? Or did they all remain in UK? - I did share
the data that a Frogley went to the US. If there is
more information on Wm.s contested father, Charles,
yes, I wish to know more. Could all be relatives. But
let's clarify on the children first. Unless we need to
follow that group US trail to learn everyone.
It would be a happy outcome if we can build a happy
rapport again. We were doing so nicely and it shows
the potential ... Mel
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Phillips - ENGLAND - Kingham [Chipping Norton?], Oxon.; plus St George Hanover Square, Westminster;
Plus USA - Madison, Lake Co., Ohio; & CANADA - Alberta.
Mitchell - WALES - Anglesey - Beaumaris, & SCOTLAND, Berwickshire - Edrom; plus Roxburghshire - Lilliesleaf.
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melcir.meri
RootsChat Member
Offline
Posts: 130
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Debbie, of course I absolutely support your work,
and have tried to explain -- I DO accept the doc.
is factual to history, but not necessarily to the truth
of his real ancestry. After all, who in those times
would bother to check if what he claimed to be true
is the truth, when a form was being completed?
A 40-year 'birth to marriage' seq. of time is missing,
if we believe him. But if we question this, we have
an alternative history ready to insert ... In order to
see if our hypothesis is correct, we need to find the
still missing pieces -- his missing years, his wife's
death, his children's marriages, birth of their children,
deaths, and so on. If we cannot find the missing
years, or find that 'he' [ie. Wm. P-F] died long before
he married Margaret Ann in 1869, we will know he
has fudged the record. If the two deaths fit as you
suggest, we will know he did NOT fudge.
This is baffling for a newcomer overseas, I have no
idea where you found the significant Indian links or
the alternative family, so quickly ... If we follow this
trail, I need the refs., so we can prove that Wm. and
Josephine had children -- not just word of mouth by
you. Just as Silvery said to me, I need something
tangible -- to quote the docs you used. This enables
your good work to be upheld, and enables me [alone
or with ongoing help] to discover what became of the
possible sons, and their mother. If you would write
this info, we can quote your kind research, so all can
verify it at any time, if they wish to. - Mel
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Phillips - ENGLAND - Kingham [Chipping Norton?], Oxon.; plus St George Hanover Square, Westminster;
Plus USA - Madison, Lake Co., Ohio; & CANADA - Alberta.
Mitchell - WALES - Anglesey - Beaumaris, & SCOTLAND, Berwickshire - Edrom; plus Roxburghshire - Lilliesleaf.
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