Elizabeth ??? King Family History Local History

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Elizabeth ??? King

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LissaM
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Elizabeth ??? King
« on: Tuesday 22 April 08 13:19 BST (UK) »

Hello, yet another brick wall,

For several years, been searching for who Elizabeth King, 1st wife of Charles King b. Steeple Clayton living in Aston Clinton ??

Known Information:

1861 Aston Clinton,
Charles King is married to Elizabeth King she is 28 yrs old b. abt 1833 in Bucklebury, Berkshire. No children.

Birth Cert for Fanny King Aston Clinton Aylesbury b. October 19, 1866 (Birth registered on Nov 13, 1866)
Father Charles King Farm Laborer Mother Elizabeth King formerly FORD.

Death Cert for Elizabeth King April ,1868 in Aston Clinton @ age 36 (1832) She dies in the presence of/home of Sarah Sharp

After a very short mourning period Roll Eyes

I guess w/ a 2 year old child to care for and you are an ag lab, a long mourning would not have been a reality.......Charles remarries in Oct 1868 to Rhoda Smith; they emigrate in 1870 w/ Charles dau Fanny and Rhoda’s son Harry Smith b. 1859. Have Marriage Cert for Charles & Rhoda Oct 1868 in Aston Clinton.

Fanny dies in the U.S. at age 5 yrs 11 mos 1 day (from her gravestone) gravestone also says “Dau of C and E King”. Using a birth date calculator, puts her birth @ October 6, 1866

The unproven speculations,

In 1841 and 1851 Bucklebury, Berks, finding (possible, Letitia is nee LAVEL/LAVELL m. James Ford in 1831)
James Ford 35 Ag Lab
Latitia Ford 30
Elizabeth Ford 9 (abt 1832) b. Berkshire, England
Thomas Ford 6
George Ford 5
Fanny Ford 4
William Ford 2
Joseph Ford 4 Mo
Mary Ford 4 Mo (Twins ??)
In 1851, a dau Charlotte age 8 is included but Elizabeth, Thomas not present with the family and possible that Joseph has died
1841/1851, Everyone listed as b. in Berkshire.

Possible, 1851 Middlesex, Ealing
Elizabeth FORD age 20 unm b. “Rucklebury, Herts “ maybe " Bucklebury, Berks" Huh

She is a household servant in the Butlin household. I couldn't find a place called "Rucklebury"

Other than this possibility, have not found Elizabeth in 1851.

I have searched and searched everywhere but can not find a Marriage between Charles King and Elizabeth FORD.

There are 2 Charles King marriages in Aylesbury in the right time frame,

1) Elizabeth Rolf Sharpe --- WRONG!!! Tho' on the surface this looks like a match , I have the MC and it is not. Charles Father's name/profession wrong. Development on this Elizabeth for bd etc seem to be all wrong for my Elizabeth as well. Perplexing as Rolf and Sharp/Sharpe are prevalent in Aston Clinton and are neighbors on both sides in the 1861 census to Charles and Elizabeth.

2) Elizabeth Homan -- have not found anything on her at all. IGI has her as Homan or Matthews Huh

in a member submitted marriage record. FreeBMD reconfirms the marriage in Dec Qtr 1861. Charles and "my" Elizabeth are together in April, 1861 census. Regardless, can not find any Homan's in Bucklebury, in Berkshire or Bucks!

Possible Elizabeth Ford could have had a previous marriage to a Mr. Homan in another place but haven't found it yet!

Appreciate any new information, help or thoughts!

Thanks so much in advance!

lissa


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Tropical
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Re: Elizabeth ??? King
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 22 April 08 13:51 BST (UK) »

Hi Lissa,

I have come across a extracted christening on IGI for a Elizabeth Ford in Bucklebury

29 July 1832 , Bucklebury, Berkshire

Parents James & Letitia

This would match your census returns for Elizabeth in 1841-51

This is all i can find at the moment

Pam


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Tropical
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Re: Elizabeth ??? King
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 22 April 08 14:38 BST (UK) »

Hi Lissa,

Ok after doing a marriage search for Elizabeth to Charles and this is the one
that matches both Elizabeth & Charles. I used the surname of Homan for Elizabeth

Elizabeth Holman district Aylesbury qtr Dec Vol 3a Page 699 1861

I have also searched for Elizabeths marriage to a Mr Homan and i can't find one, the only thing i can suggest is the Elizabeth was under 21 when she married Mr Homan and don't normally come up in the marriage index

Pam


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LissaM
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Re: Elizabeth ??? King
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 22 April 08 15:50 BST (UK) »

Hi Tropical, appreciate your look-ups and response.

I have the christening for that Elizabeth Ford w/ parents James and Letitia. I have some pretty detailed research on the Ford family done in the process of looking for Elizabeth and trying to tie them together w/ Charles King and placing her in Aston Clinton. At the moment, she is the most likely candidate but still no real "proof" or reasonable verification.

I mentioned above the problem with Elizabeth Homan is the marriage is registered in Dec Qtr 1861 -- so they could have registered the marriage late or been living together unmarried, I suppose in the 1861 census Huh

What do you think ??

Hmmmm, the under 21 marriage could be the case. I didn't know that they would not be recorded -- so that is new and useful info -- even if it doesn't provide any leads!

On the dau's BC, would the mother's true maiden name have been the only name listed ?? If there was a 1st marriage would it have not been indicated as a policy or just oversight ??

AIYIYI!

Thanks much!!

lissa


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Tropical
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Re: Elizabeth ??? King
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 22 April 08 16:37 BST (UK) »

Hi Lissa,

At least 70% of my ancestors was married under 21 which was the age when you was an adult as they classed 20 still in your teens or not an adult way back.
Normally the bride will not show up in the BMD indexes if she is under 21 but the groom will so it would be a Banns marriage and so hard to look for.

Man and woman used to live in sin in the early days like we do now, i have ancestors that was not married but living together.

As to your question about maiden or married names for the mother on birth certificate, i would presume yes, that she would of used her married name.
Mind you only a theory though, she may have had a nasty marriage with Mr Homan and may not have had any children with him and didn't want to use that surname.

Again depending on the marriage cert for Charles & Elizabeth and what Elizabeth disclosed on the cert if she has got Homan formerly Ford.

If you need anything looked up in Aston Clinton i do have the pr cd and place it in the lookup requests

Sorry i can't be of much help.

Pam


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sillgen
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Re: Elizabeth ??? King
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 22 April 08 16:51 BST (UK) »

Hi
As far as I am aware all Marriages after 1837 have both bride and groom in the GRO index - regardless of age. Prior to 1837 you need to know the parish where the marriage took place. There may be licences that you can look for in addition to the parish register if one party was under age.
Andrea


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Sill/Sills anywhere.
Rowan, Tow, Forman, Brown, Allen and King in Yorkshire, Northumberland and Durham.
Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

LissaM
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Re: Elizabeth ??? King
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 22 April 08 16:51 BST (UK) »

Hi again, Pam! appreciate your further interest and all the extra details you have provided. That's helpful in drawing some conclusions as to why Elizabeth is not easily found.

Charles has a history of being a "rescuer" -- his 2nd wife (Rhoda Smith) seems to have been rescued from difficult circumstances by him as well --- so that may have been the case with Elizabeth also.

I have speculated that IF she was married to Mr. Homan prior to Charles that it was perhaps a difficult marriage in some way. At this point , making up stories is just as good as anything since I'm not feeling hopeful as to putting the real pieces of the puzzle together Undecided

One thought from your comment that Charles and Elizabeth could have lived together, I've been looking for their marriage before 1861 but have only looked in passing after 1861 thinking that would have been too late!! So will cruise through 1861-1866 when dau Fanny was born later tonite.

Again, many thanks for your helpful background information.

lissa


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LissaM
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Re: Elizabeth ??? King
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 22 April 08 16:55 BST (UK) »

Also, think I will just go ahead and order the MC for the Elizabeth Homan and see what it says !!! Was thinking it was a waste of time/money, but maybe not and at least maybe it will provide definitive information!

Thanks again Pam and Andrea!!

lissa


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Tropical
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Re: Elizabeth ??? King
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 22 April 08 17:23 BST (UK) »

Hi Angela,

Thats not always the case, i have many woman well i like to call them woman instead of girls, that was married under 21 and i have search for the marriage in their name aswell as the mans from 1837 onwards

I knew where most of the marriages took place and parishes, and at least 40% of the women was not in the bmd indexes.

It is so much better to search for a marriage from i think Sept 1911 onwards as it has the spouses surname Grin

Pam


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sillgen
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Re: Elizabeth ??? King
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 22 April 08 18:01 BST (UK) »

That is very odd about the index. Are you looking in the FreeBMD version Pam? That is not full coverage so the brides do not always show up. If you look at the full index then there is always a corresponding entry for the bride - but you need to know the name to check it so I agree it is useless if you are searching without knowing her name.
Lissa - it might be better to write to the local office about the certificate. you can then tell them as much as you know about the couple and they will not charge you if it is the wrong one. For instance if the Charles on the certificate is a "gentleman" or "shoemaker" then he is unlikely to be your ag lab. You could also give his and her approximate age as a check point. Just a thought to save you a bit of money!
Andrea


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Sill/Sills anywhere.
Rowan, Tow, Forman, Brown, Allen and King in Yorkshire, Northumberland and Durham.
Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Tropical
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Re: Elizabeth ??? King
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 22 April 08 19:12 BST (UK) »

Hi Andrea,

Yes i do use the full index at ancestry and use the freebmd as a quick search, but i always check up with ancestry to make sure the index is correct.

My gt grandmother married twice and i cannot find her in the full marriage index at all let alone freebmd. I do have the marriage certificates.
Her first marriage she was 16 her husband passed away then she remarried when she was 20. It is also the same as some of my ancestors, i know the brides name and aged under 21 and they are not in the full indexes.

As i said it is not always the case to search with the bride under 21.

I must be one of the unlucky ones .. Grin

Pam


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LissaM
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Re: Elizabeth ??? King
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 23 April 08 12:38 BST (UK) »

Hi Pam and Andrea, took another run through the BMD's last nite looking for a later marriage (1861-1868) --- still nothing.

IF there was an earlier marriage and it was in Ealing (where the possible 1851 Elizabeth was living) it seems those records are incomplete Huh

which may be the problem.

Good suggestion Andrea, on requesting info before ordering the cert for Elizabeth Homan but from the US, I think easier to just order the MC !! GRO has made that incredibly easy and convenient and price not too awful.

Many thanks again to you both for the information and help you provided.

lissa


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