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Topic: Any ideas about how to solve this problem? (Read 331 times)
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stephenaedwards
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Posts: 189
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Hi all,
I have a John Butchart in my tree (my great great great grandfather). Everyone else on my father's side so far was from England but this guy was from Scotland. I haven't been able to get any further and I'm looking from some advice.
I haven't been able to find him in the 1851 England or Scotland censuses.
I have him on the 1861 census aged 21 working as a servant at Hylton Castle Farm. His birth place is given as simply 'Scotand'.
He married Sarah Dodgson Bainbridge at Holy Trinity Church, Sunderland on 07 Jun 1869. This is the info on the marriage cert
Age: 26
Condition: Batchelor
Profession: Labourer
Residence: Queen Street
Father's name: Willim Butchart
Profession of father: Labourer
On the 1871 census: 5 Napier Street, Sunderland; aged 27; cartman; born 'Scotland'.
On the 1881 census: 19 Woodbine Terrace, Sunderland; aged 37; cartman; born 'Scotland Fofar'.
On the 1891 census: 21 Woodbine Terrace, Sunderland; aged 46; cartman; born 'Scotland'.
On the 1901 census: 21 Woodbine Terrace, Sunderland; aged 57; Labourer in Shipyard; born 'Scotland Dumfries'
As you can see, the DOB on the 1861 census and the other records don't add up and the places of birth on the 1881 (Fofar) and 1901 (Dumfries) censuses are nowhere near each other.
There is a possible death in Sunderland in Q1 1904 for which the age is given as 60.
I've been stuck on this bloke for ages. I've checked ScotlandsPeople and there is nothing that looks likely.
Are there any other records I could check or steps I could take to find out anything more? Any advice would be great.
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CaroleW
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Hi
The best I can come up with is one you have probably already seen in 1841 for Princes St Dundee
All b Angus
Barbra Butchert 28 independent means
John Butchert 3 Months
Margret Butchert 1
Mary Ann Mill 17 servant
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CaroleW
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There is always the possibility that he was illegitimate and made up a fathers name for respectability purposes when he married
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stephenaedwards
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The father's name is good but that still puts his birth way off even the 1861 census year of 1840.
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stephenaedwards
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Posts: 189
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Thanks for the suggestions. I'll keep at it.
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behindthefrogs
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The 1861 census information could well have been given by the farmer and if he had exagerated his age a little to get the job and possibly inflate his wages that could explain the difference.
David
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Living in Berkshire. Origin Northampton & Milton Keynes DETAILS OF THE FOLLOWING NAMES CAN BE FOUND IN SURNAME INTERESTS AT FOOT OF PAGE Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Williams, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley. Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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stephenaedwards
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Posts: 189
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Good point David. That does seem likely looking at the marriage and all of the other censuses.
That's probably more likely than continuously giving a lower age to decrease age difference between him and his wife.
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2zpool
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Posts: 1047
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William Butchart in that baptism in 1834 was a weaver.
Janis
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Co. Durham: Hall, Snowdon, Makepeace, Barnfather, Barrass, Gray/Grey, Wilson, Carr, Cole, Richardson, Greener Northumberland: Grey/Gray, Richardson, Barnfather, Heron, Redpath ------------------------------------------------------------------ Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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JosiahS
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I think the problem on place of birth could be because of a confusion between Dundee and Dumfries, which an English transcriber may not hav recognised.
I took a look at the 1861 census on Scotland's People - there is a John Bietchart (their transcription - the original could read Butchart) living with his widowed mother, Barbara in Dundee. He is aged 20 which is at the top of your range.
In the 1851 they are living with Barbara's parents and she is already a widow.
In the 1841 John is 3 months old and his mother is of independent means. I can't find a corresponding birth registration.
Could be a red herring....
Ashley
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DU: Jones, Miller, Laverick, Orwin, Burn, Finlay, Robson, Robinson, Jobling, Fenwick, Spoor, Saunders, Billingsley, Bainbridge, Chilton NB: Pickard, Gilchrist, Curry, Heron, Thompson, Bell, Henderson, Aynsley, Crumbie CU: Bell, Armstrong, Parker SY: Saunders, Bartlett, Ellis Buckinghamshire: Saunders N Yorks: Miller (Swaledale), Raw ALL CENSUS INFORMATION CONTAINED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT FROM www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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stephenaedwards
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Thanks for taking the time, Ashley.
The confusion between Dundee and Dumfries is a good possibility that hadn't occured to me.
I already have my John Butchart on the 1861 census as the farm servant in Hylton, Sunderland so the one that you found is not my one.
However, nice one for eliminating this one (Barbara's son) as a possibility as I had seen him in the 1841 census.
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stephenaedwards
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I found this 1851 census info on Ancestry:
County: Angus | Town: Drumsturdy | Civil Parish: Monifieth
William Butchart, Quarrier (50) born Dundee, Forfarshire
Isabella Butchart, Quarrier Wife (48) born Monifieth, Forfarshire
James Butchart, Scholar (7) born Monifieth, Forfarshire
I though there may possibly have been a transcription error fom 'John' to 'James' so I went to check the original image at ScotlandsPeople but it said there was no image. On clicking 'ORDER', I got the following message:
We regret that a small percentage of 1851 census images were of such a poor quality, that it was felt inappropriate to make them available for viewing. This is the case with this image. In addition we feel that an extract order copy will also have the same quality issues and as such these images cannot be ordered as extracts at this point in time.
Efforts are being made to have those images re-scanned and we hope to have them available at some point in the future.
Does anyone know how I may be able to view a census return or image?
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Sorry, please just forget me 