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Topic: William Archer (Read 699 times)
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DuncanFauvel
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 24
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hey all,
I've been doing some research into my family history, but I've hit a bit of a brick wall.
My GGG Grandfather, William Archer, has proved very difficult to place. I had a record of him as a 79 yr old living in Peckham in the 1901 census, which would place his birthdate c.1822. Unfortunately I lost the record, but I wrote down that he listed his birthplace as 'Cradleigh/Crudleigh, Herefordshire' which I believe is CRADLEY? I also believe he was a Greengrocer at some point, as I remember seeing this as his occupation later in life somewhere on the records.
He married a lady named 'Emma Foyle' from Wiltshire and they had 7 children (I believe) one of whom was my GG Grandfather, Charles Archer.
What I'd ideally like to know is who his parents/family were, and when/why he moved to London!
Any help with this would be greatly appreciated. Cheers, Duncan.
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DuncanFauvel
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 24
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Just some more info:
I believe their first child was a boy who they named William (naturally) and his birth is listed as 1849, Peckham. The son's full name was William E Archer.
I'm not sure if this is of any help, but it illustrates they must have moved to London prior to this date.
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genjen
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 790
My dad
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Here they are in 1871:
Camberwell, Surrey
William Archer, head, age 49, Greengrocer, born Crudley, herefordshire
Emma, wife, 46, Wilts, Westbury
George, son 14, born Camberwell
Thomas 12,
Elizabeth, 10
William, 3
All born Camberwell so you know that they moved before the mid 1850s.
Jen
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Essex: Howe French Cant Annis Noakes Turner Marshall Makerow DUCK Spurden HARMONY
N.E.Scotland: Howe Shaw Raitt Milne Forsyth Birnie Crichton Duncan McBeath Daniel Hay Robertson Jaffrey Smith McDonald Alexander Craighead
NR Yorks: Bushby Smith Bland Iley Cunion Kendrew Thornbury Favell Lonsdale Crossland Rudd Pratt Gibson
Westmorland: Dickenson, Jackson Ewbank Waller
Staffs: White Knight
Surrey: Knight
Durham: Smith
Hants: Williams Grose Lush Venson
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genjen
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 790
My dad
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And 1861:
Camberwell, 11 East Surrey Grove
William Archer, 38, Greengrocer, Herts, Crudley
Emma, 35, Wilts, Westbury
William, 12, son, Peckham, Surrey
Charles, 10
John 7,
George,4
Thomas,2
Elizabeth 7months
Mary Foyle, visitor, unmarried, 39, Wilts, Westbury
So now you know that they were in Surrey before 1851!
Jen
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Essex: Howe French Cant Annis Noakes Turner Marshall Makerow DUCK Spurden HARMONY
N.E.Scotland: Howe Shaw Raitt Milne Forsyth Birnie Crichton Duncan McBeath Daniel Hay Robertson Jaffrey Smith McDonald Alexander Craighead
NR Yorks: Bushby Smith Bland Iley Cunion Kendrew Thornbury Favell Lonsdale Crossland Rudd Pratt Gibson
Westmorland: Dickenson, Jackson Ewbank Waller
Staffs: White Knight
Surrey: Knight
Durham: Smith
Hants: Williams Grose Lush Venson
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DuncanFauvel
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 24
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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And 1861:
Camberwell, 11 East Surrey Grove
William Archer, 38, Greengrocer, Herts, Crudley
Emma, 35, Wilts, Westbury
William, 12, son, Peckham, Surrey
Charles, 10
John 7,
George,4
Thomas,2
Elizabeth 7months
Mary Foyle, visitor, unmarried, 39, Wilts, Westbury
So now you know that they were in Surrey before 1851!
Jen
Thank you! I believe that was the record I had lost. So in fact his birthplace was listed in 2 different counties?! It seems there are two villages by the name 'Cradley'? I remember now I had assumed that Emma's surname was Foyle, due the the visiting Mary Foyle who I had assumed was her sister.
So perhaps I have been searching in the wrong county altogether...
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genjen
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 790
My dad
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Just found them in 1851, wrongly transcribed as Arcker.
5, Park Place, Lambeth
William Archer, 28, Grocer, Hereford, Crudley
Emma, 28, Wilts, Westbury
William, 2 Surrey, Lambeth
Charles, 1month, "
I will double check to see if I have given you the wrong county of birth on the 1861 - I thought it read Herts but that could just be me.
Jen
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Essex: Howe French Cant Annis Noakes Turner Marshall Makerow DUCK Spurden HARMONY
N.E.Scotland: Howe Shaw Raitt Milne Forsyth Birnie Crichton Duncan McBeath Daniel Hay Robertson Jaffrey Smith McDonald Alexander Craighead
NR Yorks: Bushby Smith Bland Iley Cunion Kendrew Thornbury Favell Lonsdale Crossland Rudd Pratt Gibson
Westmorland: Dickenson, Jackson Ewbank Waller
Staffs: White Knight
Surrey: Knight
Durham: Smith
Hants: Williams Grose Lush Venson
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DuncanFauvel
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 24
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Just found them in 1851, wrongly transcribed as Arcker.
5, Park Place, Lambeth
William Archer, 28, Grocer, Hereford, Crudley
Emma, 28, Wilts, Westbury
William, 2 Surrey, Lambeth
Charles, 1month, "
I will double check to see if I have given you the wrong county of birth on the 1861 - I thought it read Herts but that could just be me.
Jen
Marvellous, thank you! You've been very helpful - I'm not very well versed in finding this type of information, so your help is very much appreciated.
As you say, I think Herts seems a mistake. This is the brick wall for me though, as I've never managed to get beyond their London census records. Even a further 10 years before would be very useful.
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genjen
RootsChat Veteran
Offline
Posts: 790
My dad
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I have found a marriage in Surrey, 1846, for a William Archer with a possible wife, Emma Scott.
Dec 1846, Newington, vol4/page 417
In 1841, there is a Scott family, in Westbury, Wiltshire, with a daughter named Emma aged 16.
Are we getting closer do you think?
Jen
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Logged
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Essex: Howe French Cant Annis Noakes Turner Marshall Makerow DUCK Spurden HARMONY
N.E.Scotland: Howe Shaw Raitt Milne Forsyth Birnie Crichton Duncan McBeath Daniel Hay Robertson Jaffrey Smith McDonald Alexander Craighead
NR Yorks: Bushby Smith Bland Iley Cunion Kendrew Thornbury Favell Lonsdale Crossland Rudd Pratt Gibson
Westmorland: Dickenson, Jackson Ewbank Waller
Staffs: White Knight
Surrey: Knight
Durham: Smith
Hants: Williams Grose Lush Venson
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DuncanFauvel
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 24
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I can find no record, so far, of William marrying Emma Foyle in any county. The only Emma Foyle of the right age in 1841, isn't in Westbury but that doesn't really matter, it could still be her. But I think your best bet would be to send for your GG grandfather Charles's birth certificate, which will give you a definite maiden name for his mother. If you are basing the Foyle surname on that one census return, you could be on the wrong track altogether. I think that if Mary Foyle had been related to the family, it would have said "sister-in-law" on the form. Maybe she was a friend or a cousin? Or do you know for certain that Emma was a Foyle?
Jen
No, I don't know for certain, it was probably just a foolish assumption  I wouldn't have associated the surname 'Foyle' with my family, so it's very possible she was just a visiting friend... until quite recently I had no knowledge of Emma, so her surname is a complete mystery to me.
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DuncanFauvel
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 24
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
I have found a marriage in Surrey, 1846, for a William Archer with a possible wife, Emma Scott.
Dec 1846, Newington, vol4/page 417
In 1841, there is a Scott family, in Westbury, Wiltshire, with a daughter named Emma aged 16.
Are we getting closer do you think?
Jen
That sounds very much more likely than my assumed 'Foyle'...
Could you post the details of the Scott family? I have Emma's birthdate listed as 1825, so it would certainly match in age AND location. It seems that this could be a great match! and an excellent piece of detective work by yourself, I must say. Thank you.
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DuncanFauvel
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 24
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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You know that 1841 only says yes or no to county of birth and is not accurate on ages of anyone over the age of 15?
Well - 1841 has a William Archer, butcher's apprentice, aged 16, in Buckinghamshire but not born in county. This could be yours, on his way to being a grocer in Surrey. He seems to have had a much younger child, Alfred Archer, aged 2, living at the same address, which was the household of the master butcher. No other Archers at this address.
Just a thought - don't take it for gospel.
I will post the Scott information later as I have to go and do something far less fun - shopping!
Jen
That sounds very possible. These are the children (of William Archer) that I'm aware of:
William E Archer b. 1849
Charles Archer b.1851 (My GG Grandfather)
John Archer b.1854
George Archer b.1857
Thomas Archer b.1859
Elizabeth Archer b.1861
William Archer b.1868
So that would put Alfred a good 30 years younger than the last-born William, which would be quite astonishing! Although I guess a difference in sibling ages that great was not highly unusual during that era.
I think that you may well have found him. The transition between Butcher's Apprentice and Greengrocer would've been a relatively obvious one, and Bucks is no great distance from Surrey...
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