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Topic: (Completed with thanks) Watkins (Read 179 times)
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jorose
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Re: Watkins
« Reply #1 on: Friday 23 May 08 01:59 BST (UK) » |
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freebmd.rootsweb.com - shows a possible marriage for this couple in Newington in 1851.
Do you have Richard's birth certificate? If so, what was Robert's occupation and the address of the family? I found a couple of Robert/Sarah couples in the censuses, but none shown with a son Richard of about the right age. e.g. if Robert was a waterman, there's a very good possibility in Poplar in 1861.
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Suzy W
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Posts: 118
C.M Merricks before coming to NZ
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Re: Watkins
« Reply #2 on: Friday 23 May 08 02:51 BST (UK) » |
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Yes I did come across the Newington marriage of 1851, I also thought this was them.
Sorry no birth cert, will ask another family member if she has it, all I know is that Richard Watkins was born on the 11th March 1857 in London, he married Dinnah Mary Geddis from Northern Ireland 1879 here in New Zealand.
Oh bother just found out that Robert and Sarah came to New Zealand as well, bringing Richard only six months.....Silly me!
Anyway would still like any info on when and where Robert Watkins was born and who may of been his parents.
Thanks
Suzy W
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Merricks, Tew, Voss/Vause, Whitaker, Lyall, Watkins, Shocklidge, Potentier
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Valda
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Re: Watkins
« Reply #3 on: Friday 23 May 08 07:04 BST (UK) » |
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New Zealand Death certificates will be the most informant source for Robert and Sarah as they won't appear on Rnglish records after 1857.
This looks like a possible for them on the 1851 census as they would have married just before the census if this is the correct marriage (which you need to confirm as Watkins is a reasonably common surname)
Marriages Mar 1851
Pentecost Sarah Newington 4 368
WATKINS ROBERT NEWINGTON 4 368
HO107 1581 folio ?
8 Winchester Place Peckham Camberwell Surrey
Robert Watkins 25 Head Married Shopkeeper Surrey
Sarah Watkins 19 Wife Married Surrey
There are two Sarah Pentecosts aged 9 and 10 in St Giles Camberwell on the 1841 census and two Robert Watkins aged 16 and 13.
Regards
Valda
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Suzy W
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Posts: 118
C.M Merricks before coming to NZ
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Re: Watkins
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 24 May 08 02:48 BST (UK) » |
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O.K hopefully I have not posted this over and over, having trouble at the moment.
Found the death notice for Robert Watkins he died in 1892 aged 67 in New Zealand, born in London around 1825, his parents were Edward and Martha Watkins (Edward was a Clerk) - Sorry no say about were he was born.
So if there are any census results for Edward and Martha I would be greatful.
Sarah has a different spelling for her surname - Penticost.
Hope this helps.
Regards
Suzy W
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Merricks, Tew, Voss/Vause, Whitaker, Lyall, Watkins, Shocklidge, Potentier
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Valda
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Re: Watkins
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 24 May 08 08:33 BST (UK) » |
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1841 census HO107 1050/4 enumeration schedule 54
South Street St Giles Camberwell
John Watkins 44 Gardner
Martha Watkins 40
Sidney Watkins 20 Carrier
Henry Watkins 19 Warehouse
Robert Watkins 16
Louisa Watkins 14
Ellen Watkins 10
Marion Watkins 3
all born Surrey
Then you get the more confusing 1851 census entry which on further investigation the family from the 1841 census confirms as Watkins.
HO107 1581 folio ?
8 Winchester Place Peckham Camberwell Surrey
Robert Watkins 25 Head Married Shopkeeper Surrey
Sarah Watkins 19 Wife Married Surrey
next household
Martha (ditto surname above) 50 Wife Married London Middlesex
John (ditto surname above) 55 Head Married Warehouseman Lewisham Kent
Louisa (ditto the surname above) 24 Daughter Camberwell Surrey
Caroline (ditto the surname above) 22 Daughter Camberwell Surrey
Ellen (ditto the surname above) 20 Daughter Camberwell Surrey
(no first name) Bourne 45 Visitor Married Lewisham Kent
Marion (ditto the surname above but in reality it should be Watkins not Bourne) 13 Daughter Camberwell Surrey
Only 1 spelling of Pentecost as Penticost on the 1841 census for Surrey - (Thomas 8 year old), 15 Pentecosts, 13 of which are in Camberwell.
Regards
Valda
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Suzy W
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C.M Merricks before coming to NZ
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Re: Watkins
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 24 May 08 09:44 BST (UK) » |
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Thankyou.
Would these be the same Watkins? John as head of household, the death cert says Edward was Roberts father, and Martha as his mother. Maybe he used his middle name? It is getting confusing!
I do think the spelling of Pentecost should be this way, not with a "i" I have found a number of times with surnames changing with families when they came to New Zealand, and this has been another headache.
I have looked into familysearch site but getting no where with both names, but then again not 100% but all their details.
Thanks again
Suzy W
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Merricks, Tew, Voss/Vause, Whitaker, Lyall, Watkins, Shocklidge, Potentier
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Valda
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Re: Watkins
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 24 May 08 12:17 BST (UK) » |
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Robert Watkins obviously wasn't the person giving the information about his parents on his death in 1892. Whoever it was, was giving the information to the best of their knowledge 35 years on from when the family had emigrated.
What does Susan's death information state about her parents? If you cross check that information against the father's names given on the 1851 marriage and an 1841 census Camberwell entry for her and if that proves the marriage is correct and the marriage gives Robert's father's name as John then that's what it was.
There is no evidence as yet that John had a second name and none that he didn't
The IGI is far from a complete index. Camberwell St Giles baptisms are covered 1801-1845 and Camberwell St George 1826-1830 and both families might have been non-conformist. The 1851 marriage may give some indication of this if that was the case.
Regards
Valda
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Suzy W
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Posts: 118
C.M Merricks before coming to NZ
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Re: Watkins
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 24 May 08 22:41 BST (UK) » |
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Thank you so much, this certainly has helped.
I will ask another family member if she has Sarah's death cert.
I was able to find out who where Sarah Penecost's parents - Edward born about 1800 in Surrey and Sarah Amey born around 1803.
Maybe when the death cert was done for Robert Watkins, family members got a bit muddled and put Sarah's fathers name Edward down instead.
As you said many years, a different country all have added to this puzzle.
Thanks again
Suzy W
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Merricks, Tew, Voss/Vause, Whitaker, Lyall, Watkins, Shocklidge, Potentier
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Valda
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Re: Watkins
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 25 May 08 07:58 BST (UK) » |
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Perhaps they were confused between grandfathers.
1841 census HO107 1051/5 enumeration schedule 52
Wells Cottages Crab Tree Sha? Road Peckham Camberwell
Edward Pentecost 35 Milkman
Sarah Pentecost 35
Sarah Pentecost 9
William Pentecost 6
Philip Pentecost 4
Richard Pentecost 2
all born Surrey
Adult ages, those over 15, are usually rounded down to the nearest 5 on the 1841 census.
Marriage
Edwd Pentecost
Sarah Amery
1830
Christchurch Southwark
Regards
Valda
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