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Author Topic: William Henry KEMPE b 1834  (Read 899 times)
carol8353
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Henry and Florence ROGERS- my grandparents
Re: William Henry KEMPE b 1834
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 15 April 08 09:31 BST (UK) »
Quote from: avm228 on Tuesday 15 April 08 08:23 BST (UK)
William, more helpfully than in 1861, specifies his birthplace as "St George Han[over] Squ[are]" in 1871: RG10/726 folio 53 p14

Anna Smiley

No wonder I couldn't find them in 1871 yesterday- they are mistranscribed as KAMPE,even though the image clearly says KEMPE.

My goodness what a lot of kids  Wink and two servants too!

Carol
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Rogers, Rapkin, Phillips - Hammersmith/Fulham/Paddington areas
Worth Bailey, Heapy, Burgess. All Macclesfield Cheshire
Mockridge,West Monkton Somerset
Jenner,Clapham Surrey
Kendrick,Liverpool
Wensley,Somerset

Coleman and Mc Namara from Ennis, Co Clare, Ireland
Blake and Maloney from  Kilbaha Co Clare, Ireland
avm228
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Re: William Henry KEMPE b 1834
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 15 April 08 10:03 BST (UK) »
At times like this (i.e.when it's hard to trace a family backwards) I often find it helpful to identify children's middle names - they can hold all sorts of clues to the family history.

So:

George Coleman KEMPE Sep 1858 Gateshead
William Henry KEMPE Mar 1860 Gateshead
Lucy Maud Mary KEMPE Dec 1861 Gateshead
Bernard Stacey KEMPE Jun 1864 Gateshead
Morris S KEMPE Jun 1866 Gateshead (married as Morris Stanley KEMPE in 1896)
Rose Florence KEMPE Mar 1868 Newcastle upon Tyne
Frederic Basil KEMPE Mar 1870 Newcastle upon Tyne
Arthur Philip KEMPE Jun 1871 Camberwell district (East Dulwich)


Hmmm... Grin

Anna
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
lizdb
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Re: William Henry KEMPE b 1834
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 15 April 08 17:37 BST (UK) »
You mean like you find another Bernard Kemp and wonder if they are cousins or related in some way?

modified - just deleted the one I had found, cos he is actually Edward not Bernard on the image!!!
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avm228
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: William Henry KEMPE b 1834
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday 15 April 08 17:39 BST (UK) »
Cousins are good Smiley

What I was really hoping for was that some of them would have family surnames as middle names - obviously George does, but as it's his mother's maiden name it doesn't take things any further.

But Jane may (now or in the future) be able to tie the children's names into a wider KEMPE family.

Anna
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
OzJane
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: William Henry KEMPE b 1834
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 16 April 08 00:00 BST (UK) »
Morning All,
Thanks for the information on St George's Hanover Square from 1861 ... I need to get hold of the transcript from the Ancestry site

Re the map it was the 1870 parish map with the various parishes identified but there is an overlay of larger printing which I've taken to be some sort of district or perhaps, diocese name.  On map Parish 09_3 under St George's Hanover Sq there is Christ Church May Fair, then the area around Green Sq and Buckingham palace where the word STRAND is included; then below that in the area around Westminster churches the words ST GEORGES is printed, so assume it may well be a parish/diocese, some sort of religious definition of an area.

You're right about names, have found it helpful over the years in identifying stray relatives. George COLEMAN was named after his mother, Charlotte COLEMAN.  I am wondering if the STACEY in Bernard's name is also a family name from a female line.
The naming tradition continued into the next 3 generations, one of my great uncles was a Bernard Stacey KEMPE so the family maintained the traditions.

Indeed a large number of kids ... most of whom left the UK and ended up in Australia, South Africa and Canada.  I've made contact recently with one of the Sth African lines but they go back no further than William and Charlotte.
There is also a KEMPE family website which finishes prior to my WHK but am hoping the link will one day be made.

What is immensely frustrating is that an elderly aunty told me that the family does go back to the DE CAMPO line which originated post Norman invasion but can give me no hard data .. hence my research to establish the fact from the family gossip.

Again I am most grateful for all your help and interest. Smiley Smiley

OzJane
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avm228
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Re: William Henry KEMPE b 1834
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 16 April 08 09:11 BST (UK) »
Oh I see - you meant the old Strand registration district which, as you say, extended far to the west of the Strand itself (which is a road, as I'm sure you know).

The "St George's" which appears adjacent to it is a reference to the very large St George Hanover Square registration district. 

I do hope you find William's birth or baptism.  It might just be worth seeing whether the Bank of England archives have any record of him:

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/about/history/archive/index.htm

Hope you do manage to find a link to the de Campo line.

Anna Smiley
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
OzJane
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: William Henry KEMPE b 1834
« Reply #21 on: Friday 18 April 08 04:18 BST (UK) »
Hi Anna
Thanks again for your advice.
I checked out the Bank of England website and when I found there was no on line search facility, sent an  email.
I received a very nice response from the Deputy Archivist who offered to do an initial check of the salary records for me.
I may at least get an exact date of birth.

So your leads seem to have paid off....

Cheers and thanks
OzJane
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sophiebis
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Re: William Henry KEMPE b 1834
« Reply #22 on: Thursday 08 May 08 05:05 BST (UK) »
Have Bernard Stacey Kempe in my tree , his daughter Kathleen is our grandmother..hope to make contact
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carol8353
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Re: William Henry KEMPE b 1834
« Reply #23 on: Thursday 08 May 08 07:25 BST (UK) »
Hello Sophiebis,and welcome to Rootschat.

How exciting to join and find someone researching the same family as you  Grin

If you want to get in touch with Ozjane,click on her name in blue to the left of each of her postings and you will be taken to a page where you can send a PM(Personal message)

You will be notified by email when you have a PM back,or you will see it at the top rigth of each page where it says "welcome back Sophiebis you have xxx messages."

Do let us know how it all goes Wink

Carol
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Rogers, Rapkin, Phillips - Hammersmith/Fulham/Paddington areas
Worth Bailey, Heapy, Burgess. All Macclesfield Cheshire
Mockridge,West Monkton Somerset
Jenner,Clapham Surrey
Kendrick,Liverpool
Wensley,Somerset

Coleman and Mc Namara from Ennis, Co Clare, Ireland
Blake and Maloney from  Kilbaha Co Clare, Ireland
OzJane
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: William Henry KEMPE b 1834
« Reply #24 on: Thursday 08 May 08 11:20 BST (UK) »
Hi Carol
I've made contact with Sophiebis and as it turns out we are known to each other.
I wanted to thank you and Anna again for your advice re the Bank of England.
I sent off the email to the archives and received a response in a day or so. The archivist indicated that  while they didn't do detailed research, they would check out salary records.  I was most grateful for the response and the assistance offered.
I wrote back to thank them and within a few days I had records of William Henry Kempe's employment at the Bank of England including his postings and .... wait for it ... his actual birth date! Grin Grin
Its the first time I've seen it and it will obviously assist my search for his birth record.  The archives also sent me information on his son who also worked there and information on another William Kempe from an earlier period. Smiley  They went to the trouble of sending me *jpg files with copies of all the relevant pages.  These are great people!

I am absolutely thrilled and heading off to the Australian Society of Genealogists on the weekend to start to check out parish records.  They also will order  from LDS as requested.

Its wonderful how one suggestion can lead to a re-kindling of enthusiasm and interest. One does get down sometimes especially when there is an apparent lead, often through a chat site only to find that people will take information but  offer nothing  in return, or indeed, even acknowledge receipt and indicate they have nothing further.

C'est la vie!!! and experience helps, I guess.

I DO love this site as people are so honest and genuine ... thank you all so much.
As I said earlier, am happy to assist on the Australian end if it assists anyone at all.
Ozjane
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carol8353
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Re: William Henry KEMPE b 1834
« Reply #25 on: Thursday 08 May 08 12:29 BST (UK) »
So,what'is date of birth then Ozjane  Grin Grin Grin

If you can wait a while for a definite answer,you will see that Dawnsh is offering parish look ups on the Middlesex board.

She has quite a few to do,and is working through them chronologically(in date order  Cool) but if you would like her to take a look then post a new request with LMA look up as your title.

I had Oz rellies,but haven't really looked at them for ages........I might just do that now  Grin They moved out to Sydney around 1858.....I wonder if they could be found on the ships lists?

Anyway glad to have been able to help- it's great when one of us suggests something and another has the info to be able to take it further.

What a team  Grin Grin Grin

Carol
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Rogers, Rapkin, Phillips - Hammersmith/Fulham/Paddington areas
Worth Bailey, Heapy, Burgess. All Macclesfield Cheshire
Mockridge,West Monkton Somerset
Jenner,Clapham Surrey
Kendrick,Liverpool
Wensley,Somerset

Coleman and Mc Namara from Ennis, Co Clare, Ireland
Blake and Maloney from  Kilbaha Co Clare, Ireland
OzJane
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: William Henry KEMPE b 1834
« Reply #26 on: Saturday 10 May 08 08:19 BST (UK) »
Hi Carol (and team!)
The date is  ... dada ... 28 November 1833.
As it's so late in the year it explains why his estimated DOB is 1834. Nice to have this little inaccuracies tidied up. Grin.  Will now check in with Dawnsh and see how we go.
Spent much of today at the Society checking out their resources and focusing on my Irish line ... but have hit the proverbial brickwall there I think. But need to be sure there is nowhere else to go.
Will persist now with the Kempes.

That line (Kempes) also come out to Australia about that time (1858) so am comfortable with look ups if you need them done here. Also can check out at the Society (excellent Australian data bases) if you want to give me some details. Shipping lists were fairly well documented. Especially from the other side of my family, several convicts, who are very well documented.

Cheers and will keep you guys up to date and thanks again for your advice.

OzJane
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