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Topic: New to Australian Research! (Read 2411 times)
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Ruskie
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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.. and lucky last ...
Letter from Henry Jordan says Robt will not be able to satisy the Colonial Govt that is is just a loan – he says Robt will charge interest – and that Robt needs a legally drawn agreement, and even then it would not be approved. He explains what he land order scheme is about, the 3 types of immigrants (anyone can come if they pay own fare, but free and assisted must have medical and other suitability tests before being allowed to emigrate) – he says rules are made and unless they are fully carried out are useless. He says their arrangements meet their requirements and they do not need to be supplemented by any other plan – he tells Robert to cancel his arrangements for assisting others - says Robert and his family will get their land orders and (the following is underlined) “ if you bring others out you cannot claim land order for them and you would be introducing persons without any control or guarantee of their fitness”.
Janet, I don’t know how interested you are in this correspondence, but there was too much to photocopy or take detailed notes. If you like, next time I go to the Archives I can try to put this onto a USB drive and send it to you via email. NB. I am technologically challenged, have never done this before, but hope someone in the archives will be able to assist.
The letters were a bit hard to follow (letters weren’t in order) but very interesting. Have posted these extracts on here because I thought others following this thread may be interested. It does give some insight into the characters of these people, their personalities, what drives them etc. Was Robert trying to pull a swifty, or was he being a good guy and trying to help his countrymen and the Queensland Governement? Interesting to read both points of view.
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trish251
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Ruskie
Downloading the images is so very easy - you will wonder why you didn't do it before You simply line up the image on screen as if you were going to print it & then open the scanner software - once the staff have shown you - you will fly - it is quick too
The land grant letters sound so interesting to me - My folks paid their "benefactor" for land as part of their passage - and never got it as the govt said it had not offered same. There was quite a problem in the early days - if folks paid their own fare it was thought they were "rich" and could afford to pay for their land - but if they paid their own fare, they usually didn't have money left for land.
Robts ideas do sound a little sus! Lots of folks (often the Scots) came up with many wild ideas for immigration - they were seriously keen on populating Australia with protestants.
Trish
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Ruskie
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I'm sure you're right about downloading images Trish. There look to be about 4 film viewers set up with PC's ready to go. I'm quite keen to try it actually  .
Yes, the land orders do look interesting. A useful resource I wasn't aware of.
Robert does appear to have a few land orders (but as I said I ran out of time before I could investigate further) - probably just for family members. There definitely aren't 300 + for all the passengers aboard the Helenslee. There must have been many scams around to rip off illiterate immigrants.
Be interesting to find out more about the land given to immigrants, how much they got, where it was etc. I believe there were conditions attached, eg you had to clear the land for farming.
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trish251
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The ones on the RHS as you walk into the viewer room are set for scanning - I was annoyed last time I went because I didn't know they had any & I didn't have my memory stick with me! I've been using them at the state library, so much quicker than transcribing - and it's free - no printing costs 
I haven't looked at many land records - but I know of one in NSW which included the immigation details of my ggg grandfather - tis the only place we found as to when he arrived and the name of the ship - so they can be very useful
Trish
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Ruskie
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They're quite new I think Trish. There are a lot of changes going on at the Archives at the moment - the new building looks complete and the landscapers have been planting away (loads of grass which seems odd, what with the bushy setting and the drought)- I would have thought indigenous plants would have suited better.  . )
Even the reception area has had an unnecessary makeover. Big spends ... I must have a look at their website to see what they're going to fill the new building with.
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trish251
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I always remember when we got the new Indooropilly library. Great place - well decorated - the books fitted in the back corner - they didn't buy anything new to put in same. they have since given part of it away to use as the Council enquiry/payment centre 
It's hard to imagine the archives reception area needed a makeover - I thought the State govt was supposedly spending all it's money on hospitals It would be lovely if they used some money for scanning & making more information easily available. I can live in hope!
Trish
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fridayjan
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Ruskie,
Thank you for all this - hmmmm - it does sound a little dubious doesn't it, but I don't suppose we'll ever know what his intentions were. I'm also technically challenged, but it would be interesting to read the letters if it's as easy as it sounds to copy them on to a stick thingy, but please don't bother if it takes up a lot of time. I feel that I should try and find a book to read about emigrants to Australia - I've read the Secret River but that was more about convicts than people who paid to go.
I think I said earlier that I've had a contact through Genes from one of Robert's descendents - only a brief contact so far, but maybe she will know some more about the family - I hope to hear from her again after the weekend and have told her about this thread.
With regard to the possible marriage of Francis Marsh to Mary Anna - I think I must have put two and two together from one of the Electoral Rolls where she appears at the same address as Mary Anna Marsh - I'll have another look. Also, I think the Wills for James Harvey etc. may be the children of Matthew McGavin rather than Robert but I'll check in the morning.
Thanks again,
Janet
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Ruskie
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You're right Trish - the reception area seemed all new and clean before the makeover . They've painted, "resurfaced" the reception desk, put in fancy new opaque windows with images on, plus backlit glass panels etc .... and they're only the few things I've noticed. I can only imagine what's gone on behind the scenes. I'd like to see a couple of new fiche readers and more than 2 sets of BMD fiche as well as reliable online resources. The readers are often occupied even when there aren't many researchers.
Janet, I'd love to try to get those images for you. I'll do so next time I'm at the archives. It should only take a minute or two.
I'll be very interested to see if your Genes contact knows any more - please let us know what you find out.
Let me know what I've missed and I'll try again next time. In the meantime Karen may be able to fill in some of the BMD gaps if she gets to the Library.
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ewilkin
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Hello to Jan, Ruskie and Karenlee,
I have finally got some time to try and catch up on your huge amount of correspondence. Just to tackle a few of your queries I've noticed. There is a small book published by: EILEEN B JOHNSON, PO BOX 4185, TINANA. QLD.4650 AUSTRALIA. the book is called "They Came Direct The Helenslee".
She has done a lot of research on the Helenslee as well as many other ships that came to Australia. I can't remember how much a copy is but I think it was only about $20. There are copies of all the letters between Robert McGavin and the relevant authorities as well as lots of other interesting details about the ship and its voyage. Interesting details about how a number of ships arrived at this time and doubled the population of Rockhampton in a few weeks. It was a very well run ship with few deaths etc and lots of church and sunday school.
So there could be some truth about populating QLD with prebyterians, as they were a very religious famly. If you go to www.electricscotland and look up significant scots - William McGavin (Robert's Brother) it will show you how deeply involved they were. William has huge memorial built to him as the quthor of the "The Protestant". And very involved in the temperence movement. Have also traced their name back to being one Robert McGavin as being one of some of the "Coventanters" ( those who opposed the king to uphold scotish protestant church in 1600"s) - these were the guys who got hung drawn and quartered.
I recently went to Scotland to try and find more details and found the original family farm "Darnlaw Farm" near Cumnock where Robert was born. I couldn't reconcile how seemingly ordinary tenant farmers had been so well educated and branched out so quickly into such seeminly educated positions in life.
Darnlaw Frm was part of Lord Auchinleck's Estate and the Lord was James Boswell who was the very famous author of Samuel Johnson's Biography and he allowed the boys to be educated with his children for a short time on the estate. I met the current owners of the farm (and the took me on a tour of the area and the manor house that still stands. The farm is just as it was in Roberts time and has most of the original features on the outside - of course modernised inside. I have some photos if anyone is interested.
I haven't consumed all your mail as yet but in answer to another question I noticed. Robert died in Sydney of softening of the brain and is buried at Balmain - Matthew died in Sydney as well. They didn't last too long after they got here.
If you not bored to death I have lots more on their history in Scotland,
Jan I am very interested in the Skelly history with St Vincent Island as this was one thread that I could remember hearing as a child that I had not been able to make a connection wikth and was beginning to think it was a legend so I'm very excited about this thread.
More later
Elizabeth
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Abiam
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Lucky Black Cat ???
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Just marking! But must say how I have enjoyed this thread,
Abiam
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TUCKWELL ANYWHERE!!!
DOBSON,Berks, Wilts.DOPSON, Fyfield, Wilts
SMITH, WEBB, Little Gransden, Gamlingay, Cambs
WEBB, Hatley St George, Hunts
HUNT, Wanborough, Swindon, Wilts
TUBB, Hungerford, Berks, EGERTON, Highworth, Wilts
TUCKWELL ANYWHERE!!!!
WISE, South Australia, WISE, Fawley, Berks
WISE, Bray, Binfield, Berks
WYSE, Wise, Maidenhead, Berks
VINCE, VINCENT, St Mary Bourne, Hants, Bucks, Berks
TUCKWELL ANYWHERE!!!
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Ruskie
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Hello Elizabeth and welcome to rootschat! It is great to have you join in this thread.
This is a very interesting family . Any pictures and anything at all you can post is really most welcome. I, for one would be interested to learn about the family in Scotland.
It would be very worthwhile for Janet to purchase the book you recommend. It seems the sort of book which should be in our archives. It is fascinating to find out the stories of these people.
Do you mind telling us where you fit into the McGavin family? Do you know what relation you and Janet are to eachother?
Do you know if Robert left a will - I have been unable to find this in Qld as yet, but as he died in Sydney I don't know where it may be, if there is one? Do you know what he was doing in Sydney? How long was his illness?
This is all very exxciting!
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Ruskie
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Here you go Janet:
You can order online and pay with the credit card . This company is reliable.
http://www.gould.com.au/SearchResults.asp?Search=helenslee
PS. Are you able to help Janet and tell her who Janet and William are. who travelled with Robert McGavin and family on the Helenslee?
PPS. Is Robert's correspondence transcribed or photgraphed, do you know? I'm sure Janet would appreciate seeing his lovely writing .....
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fridayjan
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Thanks Ruskie,
I'd spotted the Gould site earlier today after a google search, but as you now say they're reliable, my order is already winging it's way to them!
I've just done a quick calculation on my family tree maker, and I think Elizabeth and I are 4th cousins once removed.
Still no sign of Janet and William Thomson - I daren't put another question about them on here just yet as I'm sure I'll get really snowed under with information and even more confused! 
We recently had a very unexpected holiday (a relative was ill  and we were asked at 5 days notice if we'd like to go  ) in the West Indies on an island only 30 miles from St Vincent and had hoped to get there to look for records of Adam Skelly (Margaret's brother), but the flight was cancelled because it was overbooked (?)  . Since we got home I've managed to find a paid researcher on the island (this was before I discovered the fantastic Rootschat) so hopefully I'll be getting some information from there soon.
Janet
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Ruskie
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Hi Janet,
Please let us know about any interesting revelations in the book. Look forward to you receiving it.
I'll see what Elizabeth says about Robert's letters in the book - if they're transcripts, I'll still get the images for you from the archives. If they're images of the letters, you probably won't need me to get them from the archives. (But let me know if you still do ) Unfortunately they're on film, so not as nice and 'hands on' as if they were the original letters.
I think it would be best if you started another thread for each person/family you're looking for (I know there is some cross-over). If you want to start one for Adam, don't forget to add a link to this thread. Similar for the Thomsons. This will save people searching through records that may have already been searched in the hunt for your McGavins, and provide people with some background on the families.
I couldn't find the Thomsons coming into Queensland, but they may have gone to another state, America, New Zealand ... England - anywhere. Adam and David aren't overly common names, so (in theory) should be a little easier to track down
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ewilkin
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Hi Ruskie and Janet,
A couple of answers and a couple of questions.
Robert and Margarets children were as I see it Janet 1836, Mary 1838, Robert 1840, JOhn Adam 1844, James 1845, Jane 1846, William 1849, Agnes 1855, Margaret 1854. Agnes died 8mth old in Sept 1855 of TB buried Glasgow necropolis.
The rest of the eight children seem to listed as traveling on the Helenslee with them although there is some doubt about the Matthew that is listed on the passenger list and James is not on the list and MAtthew is the right age for it to be James - this could be an error in transcribing  ? Seems reasonable to assume that all the children would travel with the family.
The book on the ship is mostly transcribed, particularly the letters of Robert. There are some photo copies in the back but they are of a more general nature.
I would love to have a copy of something Roberts hand if that could be arranged as well I would be very grateful.
Are you connected in some way to the family Ruskie?
I some crib sheets with a shortened version of the family's movements in Scotland which I can send by e-mail - I will send them to you Janet, and you if you wish Ruskie.
I shall also send some photo's and one interesting one of their old address at "Ibox Holm" where they were living in the 1841 census. Went to have look at the address when there but the houses are now gone and a council estate there but the old terrace houses were still behind the estate. When you see the photo you can see where the trees are still growing in the same position in the oval.
There was also quite an influence in Kilwinning as there were two streets and a rather large park named after them. I think Roberts brother lived there at some stage.
Cheers Elizabeth
PS - Haven't found Roberts will - shall investigate that further - something I haven't really looked for as yet.
Have tried to post some photo's but the files are all too large so I'll email them.
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