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Topic: Marriage Look-Up: BOWYER with RIDING (Read 507 times)
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SusieMc
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Posts: 83
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Marriage: Samuel BOWYER (b. 1829, Barnton) with with [unknown] RIDING.
[li] Samuel and [unknown] RIDING had at least 2 children, Thomas and James, the latter born in 1852 in Bruern Stapleford or Barnton.
[li] It is likely that [unknown] RIDING died between 1852-1861, because Samuel subsequently married her sister, Ann RIDING (b. c1834, Anderton) in 1863 at All Saints, Runcorn.
[li] The 1861 census shows Samuel BOWYER, his siser-in-law ANN RIDING and his 4yr old son James resident in Barnton. Ann is listed as a 'homekeeper' and may well have been drafted in to look after young James following her sister's death.
Any thoughts on the identity of his first RIDING wife, what happened to her, their marriage or her relatives, would be great!!!
Thanks,
Susie
PS> Following the helpful response below, it is possible that the name of Samuel's first wife was Alice RIDING
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SusieMc
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Posts: 83
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Extremely promising! Thank you Mum44!
I'll do some more digging...
Susie
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Mum44
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Well - don't dig in that hole, because I don't think it's the ones  They are still living there in 1861 with other children
Samuel Bowyer married Mary Riding Q3. 1850
In 1851 Mary Bowyer age 27 B. Anderton is living alone in Barnton, she is a horse drivers' wife.
A***try has just crashed on me, I'll try again.....
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Names: Titchfield, Hampshire: Reed, Fielder, Cawte.
Kent: Float, Cutbush. Wallasey, Cheshire: Carroll, Ledsham. Liverpool : Horsfall, Prescott
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Mum44
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Yikes !
I can't see Samuel in 1851 
There doesn't seem to be a Mary Riding b. Cheshire on the 1841
There is an Ann Riding b. 1834 - but there is no sister Mary there Only a sister Sarah, age 12.
Although you said originally James was born 1852, on the 1861 he was 4, and there is a registration for James Bowyer Northwich Q1. 1857 which fits; there is then a death for a Mary Bowyer Northwich Q1. 1861.
The only earlier registrations don't fit - James b. Q1. 1853 but Mary died Q2. 1852
I hope you can make some sense of all this
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Names: Titchfield, Hampshire: Reed, Fielder, Cawte.
Kent: Float, Cutbush. Wallasey, Cheshire: Carroll, Ledsham. Liverpool : Horsfall, Prescott
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SusieMc
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Posts: 83
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Oh my! Thanks for your help with this...
I have a good deal of information on James Bowyer as he was a police superintendent and I have a print out of his official records.
In terms of dating, they state:
Birth: c1852 Tarvin, Cheshire.
Marriage: 23 years old on his wedding day: 18th May 1876 in Great Budworth. (this would place brith year at c1853)
They also note that his father's name was Samuel Bowyer, a game keeper in Cheshire.
Perhaps the James b. Q1. 1853 is correct, but the Mary wrong...?
And as for Samuel missing in 1851...goodness only knows!?
Hmmm
Susie
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Mum44
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Susie
Well, I have to say that I think these are two different people - and I'm not convinced that the family we have in 1861 - ie Samuel and James with Alice Riding - are the family of your James
In 1881 James the Policeman, b. 1852 Tarvin is living with his wife Hannah in Broxton, and James b. 1857 Barnton is living with his wife Jane in Barnton.
Additionally, Samuel and Ann are still living in Barnton, where Samuel is a grocer.
However, there is a Samuel Bowyer b. 1825 Clotton, Cheshire, living in Tattershall with his wife Hannah : this Samuel is a Gamekeeper 
Do you think we've been looking at the wrong family ?
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Names: Titchfield, Hampshire: Reed, Fielder, Cawte.
Kent: Float, Cutbush. Wallasey, Cheshire: Carroll, Ledsham. Liverpool : Horsfall, Prescott
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SusieMc
RootsChat Extra
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks for helping me Mum44 - I REALLY appreciate it!
Ok - for sure, I know that James (the policeman) married Hannah Foster, and I have a birth year from Cheshire Police of 1852 in Tarvin for him.
I also know - for sure - that his father was Samuel, a Cheshire game-keeper, as this is detailed on Hannah and James's marriage certificate.
So, I agree that the Samuel/Alice family are unlikely to be anything to do with 'my' James! Let's abandom that line of enquiry! 
The Samuel Bowyer (b. 1825 Clotton, Cheshire, living in Tattershall with his wife Hannah) connection is very promising though! To compound this, on 5 August 1881, Thomas Bowyer (son of Samuel) married Sarah Young and both list their place of residence as: Clotton Hoofield (Parish of Tarvin), Cheshire, England...
Do you think we can now safely assume that this Samuel and Hannah are the parents of Thomas and James?! And that Hannah is Ann Riding's sister?!
Susie
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Mum44
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Well, I tend to agree that it looks as if Samuel and Hannah are the parents you're looking for. I'm a bit muddled about Ann Riding being Hannah's sister tho - because Samuel the gamekeeper is married to Hannah still in 1881, whereas by then Samuel in Barnton has married Ann.......
I think it probable that Ann was Mary's sister, but I think we're looking at a different Samuel now, one born in Clotton and married to Hannah ?
I don't think Samuel who married Ann is the right Samuel
I'll see whether I can find a marriage and birth regs. for the Clotton / Tarvin lot.
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Names: Titchfield, Hampshire: Reed, Fielder, Cawte.
Kent: Float, Cutbush. Wallasey, Cheshire: Carroll, Ledsham. Liverpool : Horsfall, Prescott
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Su
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Posts: 1986
Every time an Angel smiles a flower grows
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Hi Susie
You should never assume anything I'm afraid.
There are three marriages on CheshireBMD
Samuel Bowyer to Alice Woodward 1847 St. Mary Great Budworth
Samuel Bowyer to Mary Ryding 1850 (with a 'y') St. Mary Great Budworth
Samuel Bowyer to Ann Riding 1863 All Saints Runcorn
There doesn't appear to be one to a Hannah, nor is there one to a Hannah on Bertram Merril or the North and East Cheshire marriage indexes, so, so far she is a bit of a mystery.
There are a couple of Births for James Bowyer, but not in 1852, the nearest is 1853.
The only way to find out the correct mother of your James is to send for his birth certificate.
The Bowyers have been the bain of my research, as my own grandmother was a Bowyer. Her father was George Henry Bowyer born abt 1854. I have never been able to find a birth for him nor can I find him on the 1861.71 census. His father, according to his marriage cert, was Robert Bowyer. I can't find him either I've almost given up on them
Kind regards
Su
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Barnett Altrincham/Manchester
Bates Hindley Lancs
Bowyer Altrincham Cheshire
Cunliffe Hindley
Hollingworth Hale Barnes/Mobberley Ches
Jones Salford/Altrincham
Ramsdale Hindley Lancs
Timperley Warburton/Dunham Massey
Yarwood Great Budworth,Lymm,Dumham Massey
All Census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
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Mum44
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2489
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello Su and Susie
I'm glad you stepped in Su -I was beginning to think I was going doolally!
Like you, I have found no Samuel / Hannah marriage  The nearest I came was Ann Dutton in Runcorn in 1850 - Ann sometimes Hannah or vice versa - a very long shot indeed.
I can't find James who became the policeman with his parents; I can't find a James or a Thomas registered in Great Boughton, which was the reg. district for Tarvin.
All in all most frustrating, and although on the face of it it does seem likely that Samuel and Hannah were James' parents, there does not at the moment seem to be one shred of evidence other than that Samuel was a gamekeeper!
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Names: Titchfield, Hampshire: Reed, Fielder, Cawte.
Kent: Float, Cutbush. Wallasey, Cheshire: Carroll, Ledsham. Liverpool : Horsfall, Prescott
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SusieMc
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 83
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi ladies!
Thanks for your help - frustrating as this is proving to be!
I've bitted the bullet and orderd what I think might be James's birth certificate (plumping for 1853 option!) so hopefully that should at least clear up his mother's name! I'll post on here as soon as it arrives...
Susie
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Mum44
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2489
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I think the Riding business is a total red herring.
I think Susie found Samuel with son James and went from there. This is a totally different Bowyer family - both James are on the 1881 with their respective wives - forget the Riding connection altogether, I think.
I can't find James belonging to the gamekeeper either
If it weren't for the marriage certifcate, I'd think we were in the wrong zone altogether - but even with the marriage cert. there doesn't seem to be a link other than Samuel was a gamekeeper .
Plus - no registrations apparent in Great Boughton
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Names: Titchfield, Hampshire: Reed, Fielder, Cawte.
Kent: Float, Cutbush. Wallasey, Cheshire: Carroll, Ledsham. Liverpool : Horsfall, Prescott
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