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Topic: WILLIAMS in Esclusham Above/Pantagaren (Read 727 times)
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Indigogirl
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 124
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Moses Williams b c.1833 in Pantgaren.
m to Jane Gittins (b c.1837 Bersham) 1853 Ruabon St Mary's.
I have the date but no info about parents for Moses
Children John, Jane, Margaret, James, Moses, Thomas, Elizabeth Ann, LLewelyn.
Looking for earlier records please -birth or baptism for Moses Williams and record of parents.
Guess that his father will be Moses Williams as next 3 oldest sons were Moses.
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Edwards, Williams, Griffiths, Gittins in Denbighshire, Merionethshire
Edwards in Monmouthshire.
Kosh, London, Newcastle.
Smart, Rowley Regis,Staffs
Edwards in Pontefract, Castleford, Matlock
Fagan Sheffield, Ireland
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CaroleW
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Posts: 9084
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The 1861 shows his birthplace as Ruabon and the 1851 as Wrexham when he was a servant
There are 2 Moses Williams on the Denbighshire 1841 both b 1835 - the next youngest was b 1828
One has parents David & Jane - area was Llanfairtalhaiarn,
and the other William & Margaret - area was Llansannan
You really need a copy of his marriage cert to establish his fathers name
Why not post a request for a lookup of the parish entry for the marriage. You need to include the quarter of 1853 in which the marriage took place to help narrow the search
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Indigogirl
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 124
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Thank you.
I've seen one of those I think - seem to recall servant/waggoner on a farm?
The earliest census record I have for definite is 1861.
Pantagaren is mentioned in 1871 (RG10/5657 Folio 10 Page 11) but I suspect it might be mis transcribed?
Any ideas where it may be?
I dont know the Q - i found it on the NW BMDsite
Di
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« Last Edit: Wednesday 07 May 08 13:57 BST (UK) by copyright_editor »
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Edwards, Williams, Griffiths, Gittins in Denbighshire, Merionethshire
Edwards in Monmouthshire.
Kosh, London, Newcastle.
Smart, Rowley Regis,Staffs
Edwards in Pontefract, Castleford, Matlock
Fagan Sheffield, Ireland
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CaroleW
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 9084
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It was the September quarter
Just in case you don't get a response to your lookup request - here is the full reference if you have to buy a copy of the certificate
Moses Williams / Jane Gittins September qtr 1853 Wrexham Volume: 11b Page: 392
www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
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wrjones
RootsChat Aristocrat
 Online
Posts: 2005
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From the Wern Independent Chapel Wrexham,a Moses williams was born on 10/06/1833 and Baptised 30/06/1833,to Parents John Williams(Farmer) of Esclusham Above and Wife Anne(Maiden name Foulks).
Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
Wrexham.
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Jones,Griffiths.Stephens,Parry,Gabriel,Conway,Hughes,Evans,Roberts,Lea,Hanmer.Peake,Edwards.Newnes,Davies. All North Wales. Conway,Durber,Cartlidge,Lovatt,Bebington.Brindley,Sankey,Brunt.Dean.Clewes.Rhodes. All Stoke-on-Trent. Francis-Nantwich Cheshire. Dennell-Cheshire/Staffordshire. Census Information Is Crown Copyright,from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Indigogirl
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 124
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Thanks for the full ref Carol.
I've posted a look up
Mr Jones - firstly thank you. Can you shed any light on the Pantgaren place? If this is the right record then it could be a farm name?
His birthdate from the census is anywhere between 1833-6.
I'm erring towards the 1833 because of his age at marriage in 1853 but any are possible.
Forgive me if this is a silly question but would he have got married in St Mary's if he was baptised at an Independent Chapel?
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Edwards, Williams, Griffiths, Gittins in Denbighshire, Merionethshire
Edwards in Monmouthshire.
Kosh, London, Newcastle.
Smart, Rowley Regis,Staffs
Edwards in Pontefract, Castleford, Matlock
Fagan Sheffield, Ireland
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wrjones
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2005
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I can't say that I know of the Pantgaren place.It could well be a farmhouse as you say.The fact that anyone is Baptised in a Non Conformist place of worship doesn't appear to be a bar on anyone later marrying in Church.I have loads of such examples within my own families.
Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
Wrexham.
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Jones,Griffiths.Stephens,Parry,Gabriel,Conway,Hughes,Evans,Roberts,Lea,Hanmer.Peake,Edwards.Newnes,Davies. All North Wales. Conway,Durber,Cartlidge,Lovatt,Bebington.Brindley,Sankey,Brunt.Dean.Clewes.Rhodes. All Stoke-on-Trent. Francis-Nantwich Cheshire. Dennell-Cheshire/Staffordshire. Census Information Is Crown Copyright,from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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wilcoxon
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 453
Barry Sheene 1950-2003
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Wern Baptisms.
I can check William 1831 and see what the place name looks like.
Could be Pant y ganw, garw- it is very old writing. I have photos of the original registers.
Jane d/o John Williams / Ann Foulkes born 25 Nov 1827 bapt 6 Jan 1828
abode Bersham
William s/o John W / Ann Foulkes born 15 July 1831 bapt 7 Aug 1831
abode Pant y gaw ??
You already have Moses.
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Indigogirl
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 124
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Thats great thanks.
The Pant y gaw/pant y ganw (which I'm assuming you dont recognise from the ??) makes them seem very likely matches. It looks close enough to be a transciption error.
Do you think it might be a farm?
Can you translate any or part of it please?
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Edwards, Williams, Griffiths, Gittins in Denbighshire, Merionethshire
Edwards in Monmouthshire.
Kosh, London, Newcastle.
Smart, Rowley Regis,Staffs
Edwards in Pontefract, Castleford, Matlock
Fagan Sheffield, Ireland
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wilcoxon
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 453
Barry Sheene 1950-2003
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I think I`ve found it , I have a very old map . large scale.
Pant Y Garn. 
It`s right up on the top of Rhos mountain, the closest I can find on a modern map is Tainant. I`ll see if I can locate it elsewhere.
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wilcoxon
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 453
Barry Sheene 1950-2003
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http://www.old-maps.co.uk/index.htm
Ok got it. Use the gazetter on this site, choose Denbs then place name
Tai nant. Where you see boxes named co ordinates above the map, enter 326800 and 347700 click GO, the page will bring you to Pant Y garn. Zoom in once and there it is.
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Indigogirl
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 124
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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As if by magic! Thats pretty incredible
I have no idea how you found it.!
It does look like a farm.
Whats the nearest place I might have heard of do you think? In which direction?
I've tried zooming out but then the writing gets too small!
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Edwards, Williams, Griffiths, Gittins in Denbighshire, Merionethshire
Edwards in Monmouthshire.
Kosh, London, Newcastle.
Smart, Rowley Regis,Staffs
Edwards in Pontefract, Castleford, Matlock
Fagan Sheffield, Ireland
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Indigogirl
RootsChat Member
Offline
Posts: 124
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Ignore last - I just found Rhos and Llwyneinion on the right - East I presume
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Edwards, Williams, Griffiths, Gittins in Denbighshire, Merionethshire
Edwards in Monmouthshire.
Kosh, London, Newcastle.
Smart, Rowley Regis,Staffs
Edwards in Pontefract, Castleford, Matlock
Fagan Sheffield, Ireland
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Paul
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1084
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Hello,
Ruabon marriage July 30 1853.
Moses Williams(X) 20. bachelor. Labourer. Rhosllannerchrugog. Father, John. Occ, Labourer.
Jane Gittins. 17. spinster. Servant. Rhosllannerchrugog. Father, Thomas. Occ, Black smith.
Witnesses. Robert Gittins and Ellener Sowell.
Paul.
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Indigogirl
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 124
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Thanks Paul.
Very helpful.
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Edwards, Williams, Griffiths, Gittins in Denbighshire, Merionethshire
Edwards in Monmouthshire.
Kosh, London, Newcastle.
Smart, Rowley Regis,Staffs
Edwards in Pontefract, Castleford, Matlock
Fagan Sheffield, Ireland
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