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Topic: The Lusitania Sinking & Philips Park Cemetery (Read 4388 times)
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MancsMan
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2115
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I've had that reply from the Lustiania historian with a possible target person Hi Ken, Thanks for your e-mail. Interesting project you're working on and one of particular interest to me because one of my research in finding graves of Lusitania victims and survivors. I looked through my cemetery list, and I didn't see anything for Philips Park, but I did find a man by the name of George Arthur Gilpin, who I have down as being buried in Manchester but with no cemetery listed. I wonder if that 's who it might be? He was lost, and his body was recovered. I hope this helps, and if there is anything else I can do, please let me know. I'd also like to know if you have found or are looking for other Lustiania graves. Regards, Eric Sauder www.northatlanticrun.com
Hi Annie
This is my posting earlier - I can only find 1 George Arthur/(A) Gilpin on any census report living between Salford & Leeds - but then again he may be down as just George Gilpin on the census and I have looked at the wrong person 
But nothing to say he did not move to London from 1891 until his death.
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Hilton - Wiltshire, Prestwich, Manchester Millington - Manchester, Birmingham Harris - Manchester, Salford, Southern Rhodesia, Aston Manor Birmingham, Temple Balsall, Knowle Jones - Higher Broughton, Cheetham Hill, Denbighshire Lawton - Prestwich, Manchester Smith - Manchester Carey - Manchester Cotterell - Lambeth, London Fletcher - Middleton, Manchester Capper - Manchester Fancy a chin wag on Faceb**k http://www.rootschat.com/links/07bv/ |
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emmsthheight
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1890
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi
There's a George Gilpin leaving via Liverpool fpr New York in 1897 birth date unknown
Also in 1891 but George H - any chance of H being A misread?
and in 1923 George Gilpin b 1869 approx left via Belfast for Canada - Evidently not him.
Sorry, I'm not signed up to them at the moment either.
British Cunsular BMD's? I always thought that they were just that, that they were events reported to the consul and reported back to this country for recording. I think I've been told they could overlap with chaplain's returns. Of course, if he had emigrated, would he have a death cert in this country?
What about local deaths in Ireland if his body was recovered initially to Ireland?
Best wishes
Emms
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emmsthheight
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1890
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Again
If anyone was on the library edition of Ancestry, they can get the USA immigration records or a census in USA or Canada that might show if he emigrated.
Emms
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BarbaraH
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1119
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There is some activity at Manchester Burial Records site again! Quick, try a few names before it gets away!!
Arthur Gilpin in Philips Park but is buried 1881 - could there be a connection there?
 Barbara
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Newton Heath/Failsworth: Greenwood, McGibbon, Fishwick, Berry LANCS: Holt, Greenwood, Greenhalgh, Ballard, Threlfall,Fishwick, Berry CHES/DERBYS: Holt, Goodwin, Grant, Vernon LANARK & regions: McGibbon, Bryson, Smith, Campbell YORKS/LINCS: Taylor, Stamford, Fishwick. Bartholomew Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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MancsMan
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2115
"FACEBOOK" http://www.rootschat.com/links/07bv/
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Will jump on that Barbara - but first got to get this off my chest before my head explodes 
Emms I have been looking on the ellisisland.com website and found this
George Arthur Gilpin - Male - 47 and 1 month - Single - Ethenicity British?English - Place of residence Republic de Salvadore, San Salvadore (slight age difference)
His ship arrived in New York on the 23rd April 1915 (3 weeks before the Lusitania was sunk)
and it states he was on route to:
Final destination
Leeds/London England
Elizabeth Mary Gilpin (Mother) 23 Marshall st, Leeds
Whether been to USA before yes 1909 (but cant find that entry)
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Hilton - Wiltshire, Prestwich, Manchester Millington - Manchester, Birmingham Harris - Manchester, Salford, Southern Rhodesia, Aston Manor Birmingham, Temple Balsall, Knowle Jones - Higher Broughton, Cheetham Hill, Denbighshire Lawton - Prestwich, Manchester Smith - Manchester Carey - Manchester Cotterell - Lambeth, London Fletcher - Middleton, Manchester Capper - Manchester Fancy a chin wag on Faceb**k http://www.rootschat.com/links/07bv/ |
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bursy
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 677
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi
Looking on the Ellis Island site, there is this, but age differs from Ken's census find
G. A. GILPIN
English
Age 41
Arrived Jan 9 1896
Departure Port Liverpool
In 1927 brother Walter is living at Birch Grove, Rusholme
Dave
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MancsMan
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2115
"FACEBOOK" http://www.rootschat.com/links/07bv/
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Dave
aarrgghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
spotted that one but did not see the Walter - rechecked manchester burials no Walter buried in any cemetery.
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Hilton - Wiltshire, Prestwich, Manchester Millington - Manchester, Birmingham Harris - Manchester, Salford, Southern Rhodesia, Aston Manor Birmingham, Temple Balsall, Knowle Jones - Higher Broughton, Cheetham Hill, Denbighshire Lawton - Prestwich, Manchester Smith - Manchester Carey - Manchester Cotterell - Lambeth, London Fletcher - Middleton, Manchester Capper - Manchester Fancy a chin wag on Faceb**k http://www.rootschat.com/links/07bv/ |
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emmsthheight
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1890
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Confused!
Going to water the garden 
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liverpool annie
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 13080
Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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This is the same guy you had Ken !! quite a traveller !!
New Orleans Passenger Lists 1820-1945
Name - George A Gilpin
Arrival Date - 14 Jun 1909
Age - 41
Gender - Male
Ethnic Background - English
Port of Departure - Puerto Barrios Guatemala
Ship Name - Harry T Inge
Port of Arrival - New Orleans Louisiana
Friend's Name - Banco De Salvadorina
Last Residence - Salvador
Birthplace - England Leeds
New York Passenger Lists 1820-1957
Name - George Arthur Gilpin
Arrival Date - 18 Oct 1909
Estimated Birth Year - 1868
Age - 41
Gender - Male
Port of Departure - Liverpool England
Ethnicity/Race/Nationality - English
Ship Name - Celtic
Port of Arrival - New York New York
Birth Location - England Leeds
California Passenger and Crew Lists 1893-1957
Name - Geo A Gilpin
Arrival Date - 13 Mar 1901
Age - 33 years 1 months
Birth Date - 1868
Gender - Male
Ship Name - Newport
Port of Arrival - San Francisco, California
Port of Departure - Panama
Last Residence - Salvador
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emmsthheight
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1890
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi
Thank you Ken. Well found! I'm with you now - I'd love to see an entry with an occupation for this guy - apapart from visitting "Banco do Salvadorina"! did he really turme almost straight back again?
Everything else seems to fit. If the Lusitania was sunk 3 weeks later off Ireland, she set off soon after he got there.
In fact I'd like to know what went on on this route. I've found passengers who carried on from USA to these South American countries, and never haad time to go into it
Keep up the good work!
Emms
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MancsMan
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2115
"FACEBOOK" http://www.rootschat.com/links/07bv/
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Piecing all this together what we have found out about the person George Arthur (A) Gilpin - I think the % is high that this is the same person
| DATA REMOVED DUE TO BREACH OF CENSUS COPYRIGHT |
Mother has moved back to Leeds with Lily and Son-in-Law
Walter is living with his wife/family in Salford
California Passenger and Crew Lists 1893-1957
Name - Geo A Gilpin
Arrival Date - 13 Mar 1901
Age - 33 years 1 months
Birth Date - 1868
Gender - Male
Ship Name - Newport
Port of Arrival - San Francisco, California
Port of Departure - Panama
Last Residence – Salvador
New Orleans Passenger Lists 1820-1945
Name - George A Gilpin
Arrival Date - 14 Jun 1909
Age - 41
Gender - Male
Ethnic Background - English
Port of Departure - Puerto Barrios Guatemala
Ship Name - Harry T Inge
Port of Arrival - New Orleans Louisiana
Friend's Name - Banco De Salvadorina
Last Residence - Salvador
Birthplace - England Leeds
New York Passenger Lists 1820-1957
Name - George Arthur Gilpin
Arrival Date - 18 Oct 1909
Estimated Birth Year - 1868
Age - 41
Gender - Male
Port of Departure - Liverpool England
Ethnicity/Race/Nationality - English
Ship Name - Celtic
Port of Arrival - New York New York
Birth Location - England Leeds
George Arthur Gilpin - Male - 47 and 1 month - Single - Ethenicity British?English - Place of residence Republic de Salvadore, San Salvadore (slight age difference)
His ship arrived in New York on the 23rd April 1915 (3 weeks before the Lusitania was sunk)
and it states he was on route to:
Final destination
Leeds/London England
Elizabeth Mary Gilpin (Mother) 23 Marshall st, Leeds
Whether been to USA before yes 1909 (but also 1901)
According to the passenger list
GILPIN, Mr. George Arthur, age 47, British, London, England, Saloon/1st class passenger
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« Last Edit: Thursday 13 November 08 18:27 UTC (UK) by MancsMan »
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Hilton - Wiltshire, Prestwich, Manchester Millington - Manchester, Birmingham Harris - Manchester, Salford, Southern Rhodesia, Aston Manor Birmingham, Temple Balsall, Knowle Jones - Higher Broughton, Cheetham Hill, Denbighshire Lawton - Prestwich, Manchester Smith - Manchester Carey - Manchester Cotterell - Lambeth, London Fletcher - Middleton, Manchester Capper - Manchester Fancy a chin wag on Faceb**k http://www.rootschat.com/links/07bv/ |
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emmsthheight
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1890
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Ken
Brilliant!
I was being a bit slow. He's on his way back. So , he was a clerk until just months before he turned up on the first passenger list After jouirneys to San Salvador via Panama San Francisco and New York, he was returning a first class passenger.
Evidently doing better there than in the mill towns of Lancashire, then met his sad end.
Keep up the good work.
Emms
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liverpool annie
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 13080
Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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If George ( the banker ) comes from Leeds .... I wonder why he'd be buried at Phillips Park Ken ??
I found a couple of ladies who may have been mentioned on the headstone or buried in family plots !! ..... the blurb on the Phillips Park site says it's a family though !!
LOVETT, Miss Mary Fall River, Mass. Passenger second cabin. On the Sunday, May 9, list of missing and probable dead.
Droylsden - Roll of Honour 1914 - 1918
LOVETT. MARY. Miss. Civilian.
Drowned at sea on the S.S. Lusitania. Living in Fall River Mass. U.S.A. native of Droylsden. Travelling to the U.K. to visit family at Fairfield Road Droylsden.
http://www.billnkaz.demon.co.uk/droymem3.htm
When Gerda Welsh was pronounced dead on June 2, 1961, it was a sad end to a sad life. Gerda was born in Norway, circa 1885, as the youngest child of Thomas Neilsen, a seaman. His wife died soon after Gerda’s birth, leaving him to raise her, and her older sister Thomasine, by himself. The Neilsen family relocated to South Shields, England, from where Gerda, a skilled dressmaker, emigrated to the United States in 1910. She had visited the United States once in 1908, and upon the death of her father it might have occurred to her that she could earn a good living there. She contacted a friend, Mrs. Gabrielson, who lived in Brooklyn at 95 Bedford Avenue, who agreed to house her when she arrived. She set sail on the Mauretania, which arrived in New York on October 7, 1910. The following four and a half years of her life are difficult to document, other than that she continued working in New York City, and that she booked passage aboard the May 1st crossing of the Lusitania, to visit her sister Thomasine who still resided in South Shields.
John Welsh had traversed the country in order to take the Lusitania. He had been working in Honolulu, Hawaii as a mechanic with the Marconi Wireless Telegraphic Company. He was returning to Groton, near Manchester with several thousand dollars that he had earned over the years. He had not been on the ship long when he noticed Gerda. She stood about 5’6, had fair hair and blue eyes. She noticed him as well and they soon struck up a conversation. “We took a strong fancy to one another,” he declared. According to the book, ‘Seven Days to Disaster’, during the course of the voyage, John and Gerda became acquainted with the Hook family and shared their table at meal times. One of the main topics of conversation was the threat of being torpedoed. “If the worst should come,” John said, “we made up our minds to sink or swim together.” Towards the end of the voyage, “we became engaged, arranging to be married on arrival.”
“When the ship was struck, I was with my young lady, and we stuck to one another till the vessel sank.” said John Welsh. Placing a lifebelt on Gerda, he escorted her to one of the last lifeboats. Unfortunately, the boat upended and he jumped into the sea to rescue her. “In the water, she was braver than any man I’ve ever met. She encouraged me whilst I swam… I supported her in the water for half an hour till we reached a lifeboat. The people in the boat did not want take her in, but relented.” To Gerda’s horror, the men who lifted her into the boat wanted to leave John behind, for they claimed the craft was crowded. “She pleaded with them, and finally they pulled me up.” He claimed that he, “sustained some slight injury to my leg and arms.” The lifeboat was rescued by a tugboat and landed that night in Queenstown. Talking to a reporter from the Irish Times, he said, “Here we are together safe and sound, and the wedding bells will soon be ringing.”
They took the ferry to England and in less than a week, made their way to the All Saints’ Registry Office to be married. The ceremony took place on Thursday, May 13, 1915. The couple settled in at his home, 31 Carlton Terrace, Gorton. Their happiness slowly unraveled, as they were unable to conceive any children. The memory of the Lusitania constantly played over in her mind and she slowly went insane. Finally, John saw no other choice but to commit her to a mental hospital. Although there was hope that she might come out of it, she never seemed to improve. The years went on and John moved away to find work. He eventually died in 1941 in Bromsgrove. If Gerda was notified of his death, it may not have registered. Her mind was trapped aboard the Lusitania, but on June 2, 1961, she was finally at peace.
http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/articles/lusitania.php
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emmsthheight
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1890
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi
Could this not be a family grave for Arthur with Brother Walter's family?
Or have I missed something?
Emms
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