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Topic: Alfred HADDOCK & Hannah BOND of Lostock Gralam (Read 509 times)
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dalj
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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I am hoping to find some more info on my GR GR grandfather, Alfred HADDOCK.
He was married 1st to Martha DICKINSON on Oct 04 1880 at Tyldesley, Lancashire.
He married 2nd to Hannah [Ann] BOND on Sep 06 1886 at All Saints, Moulton, Runcorn.
They had several children, some of whom died in infancy:
1] Mary E - born abt 1887; can't find after 1891 Census
2] Pass - born and died 1891
3] John Alfred - born and died 1891
4] William - born 1894
5] Alfred b 1896 married Olive BOWYER in 1917 at St Paul, Marsten.
6] Ada b abt 1899 - married James LAMB 1916 in St John, Lostock Gralam
7] likely Thomas Alfred born 1903 / died 1997
Here they are in 1891 and 1901:
1891 CENSUS - 22, The Cinders, St John's, Lostock Gralam, Northwich
Alfred HADDOCK, head, m, age 26, labourer at Chemical Works, born Barnton
Ann, wife, m, age 21, born Lostock Gralam
Mary E, dau, age 4, born Lostock Gralam
Pass, son, age 1 m, born Lostock Gralam
* *
1901 CENSUS - 203 Herbert Street, Lostock Gralam, Northwich
Alfred HADDOCK, head, marr, age 36, chemical labourer, born Barnton
Ann HADDOCK, wife, marr, age 29, born Lostock Gralam
William HADDOCK, son, age 8, born Northwich
Alfred HADDOCK, son, age 4, born Lostock Gralam
Ada HADDOCK, dau, age 1, born Lostock Gralam
I would love LOOK-UPS for Alfred & Hannah's marriage at Moulton because I would love to know Hannah BOND's father's name since I cannot find her in 1881 Census.
I would love the baptisms for each of the children which should be at St John the Evangelist, Lostock Gralam.
Alfred HADDOCK died Feb 25 1919 and the informant was his sister-in-law, Mary HADDOCK.
I would love their MI's as well as I wonder if Hannah perhaps died before him and that's why she was not the informant.
He has been my 'brick wall' for many years so I am anxious to learn as much as I can.
Thanks in advance!!
Dallas
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Cheshire, Eng: HADDOCK, WORRALL, BOND, OAKES, DICKINSON, DIMELOW
Lancashire, Eng: LITTLER, FARRIMOND, WARD
Renfrewshire, Scotland: HART, PARK
Lanarkshire, Scotland: AIRTH, PARK, URIE, SMELLIE, CRAWFORD
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DS
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Hi Dallas
At the risk of making a complete idiot of myself  (yet again)....
Can I please ask if you have any of the children's birth certificates which state that the mother was Hannah or Ann Bond or are you just relying upon the fact that an Alfred Haydock married Hannah Bond in 1886 ?
Also are you certain that it was “your” Alfred Haddock who married Martha Dickenson in 1880 ? On the 1881 census, “your” Alfred seems to be still in Barnton and unmarried and pursuing the same line of work as his father. His next door neighbour, though, works at the Chemical Plant and that might be why Alfred had changed his occupation by 1891.
If you do have written confirmation (from a child’s birth certificate) that his wife was definitely called Ann or Hannah Bond then ignore the rest of this.
However, if you are only relying upon the marriage indexes and assuming that the two Alfreds must be “yours”, I would suggest that you should obtain the birth certificate for Pass Haddock in order to ascertain what his mother was called.
It is such an unusual first name and the only other instance of it in Northwich is a Pass Goulden in 1867. On the 1871 census he has a sister Ann Goulden who is exactly the same age as the Ann Haddock who appears on the 1891 and 1901 censuses with Alfred and she is from Lostock Granal.
I cannot find a marriage for an Alfred Haddock and an Ann Goulden but (if you do not have cast iron proof that Ann or Hannah Bond is the mother of the Haddock children) it seems to me that there could be a strong case for thinking that it might be Ann Goulden. There must have been some reason to call their child Pass.
What do you (or anyone else) think ?
DS 
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Manchester Rambler
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Bizarre....coincidence?
Deaths Jun 1891 (>99%)
GOULDING Pass 0
Northwich 8a 228
HADDOCK Pass 0
Northwich 8a 228
I can't see a corresponding birth for Pass GOULDING.
Rambler
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ANT: Nesbit, Potts CHS: Gosling, Hinton, Johnson, Marsland, Sorton LAN: Barlow, Jackson, James, Potts, Sorton MAY: Caulfield, Griffin SAL/STS: Goodwin, Gregory SOM: Dowding, James, Jones Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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DS
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Hi
I forgot to add previously that the death registration for Pass Haddock in 1891 AMJ quarter is a bit strange, because at exactly the same reference (8a 228) there is another entry for a Pass Goulding (sic) both aged 0.
That must either be a duplication or an absolutely enormous coincidence 
DS 
Seconds apart Rambler ...Are you beginning to think what I think ?
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Manchester Rambler
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Searching....
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Definitely something odd here - and not just the forename!
Cheshire BMD only has the death for Pass GOULDING.
Rambler
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ANT: Nesbit, Potts CHS: Gosling, Hinton, Johnson, Marsland, Sorton LAN: Barlow, Jackson, James, Potts, Sorton MAY: Caulfield, Griffin SAL/STS: Goodwin, Gregory SOM: Dowding, James, Jones Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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dalj
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Rambler & DS -
These finding are a bit strange to say the least )
This is what I had before for Pass HADDOCK so I hadn't seen the Pass GOULDEN/GOULDING birth/death --
England & Wales, FreeBMD Index: 1837-1983
Name: Haddock, Pass
Record Type: Births
Quarter: June
Year: 1891
District: Northwich
County: Cheshire
Volume: 8a
Page: 269
* *
England & Wales, FreeBMD Index: 1837-1983
Name: HADDOCK, Pass
Record Type: Deaths
Age at death: 0
Quarter: June
Year: 1891
District: Northwich
County: Cheshire
Volume: 8a
Page: 228
* *
I have no idea why Alfred is listed as UNmarried in 1881 Census as he married Martha DICKINSON on Oct 04 1880 at St George's, Tyldesley.
I do know that Alfred HADDOCK that married Martha in 1880 and Hannah/Ann in 1886 were one and the same people! I have his death cert and someone the other day sent me his burial info as well as Ann's and 2 of their sons'. Confirmation that Alfred was born 1860 and in Barnton and the s/o Thomas HADDOCK & Ann WORRALL of Barnton.
The only way I knew Ann's name was from the following newspaper snippet --
CHESTER AND NORTH WALES ASSIZES
Liverpool Mercury etc (Liverpool, England), Monday, October 31, 1887; Issue 12420.
Alfred HADDOCK, 24, boatman, sentenced to 1 month imprisonment for marrying Hannah BOND in Moulton on Sep 06 1887 when his 1st wife Martha HADDOCK was still alive!!
In doing a check of the marriages at the Free BMD, I realized that I had never searched for HAYDOCK and that was how he was listed there.
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church Registers At Reference
HAYDOCK Alfred BOND Hannah Runcorn, All Saints Halton C12/7/136
* *
England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1983
Name: Alfred Haydock
Year of Registration: 1886
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Runcorn
County: Cheshire
Volume: 8a
Page: 351
Hannah Bond 1886 Jul-Aug-Sep Runcorn Cheshire
Alfred Haydock 1886 Jul-Aug-Sep Runcorn Cheshire
* *
This Pass GOULDEN/GOULDING is very interesting though with an Ann who matches because I have been UNABLE to find any Ann or Hannah BOND with a matching birthplace and year in the 1871 or 1881 Census.
Perhaps this explains why??
The other thing that is very strange is that although a daugther named Mary E HADDOCK born abt 1887 is with them in 1891 Census, I can find NOTHING at all for her with regard to Birth, Marriage or Death and wonder whether she was a figment of the Census taker's imagination?? (
It is odd that NONE of their infant children are buried with them but adult sons are??
I appreciate all the help and discoveries and ideas that you've shared and would be thrilled if you come up with anything else!
Dallas
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Cheshire, Eng: HADDOCK, WORRALL, BOND, OAKES, DICKINSON, DIMELOW
Lancashire, Eng: LITTLER, FARRIMOND, WARD
Renfrewshire, Scotland: HART, PARK
Lanarkshire, Scotland: AIRTH, PARK, URIE, SMELLIE, CRAWFORD
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dalj
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Now I've got a different strange problem!
Why would Ann GOULDEN, grandau of Thomas & Sarah GOULDEN be married as Hannah BOND?
I checked and could find no marriage for her to a Mr BOND between 1881 and 1885 (
After much trouble, I finally found her brother, Pass GOULDEN [in 1871 Census]; Dass GOULDING in 1881; Pass CARTER in 1891 and as Pass GOULDING with wife Rachel and 5 children in 1901 Census and living at 3 School Lane in Lostock Gralam.
Pass GOULDING had married Rachel JONES in Congleton RD in 1892.
Ann GOULDEN / Hannah BOND
Pass GOULDEN / GOULDING aka Pass CARTER
If Thomas & Sarah CARTER's widowed son William was Pass and Ann's father, he married abt 1874 to a Mary and had 6 more children.
But, the 1871 Census simply indicates that Pass and Ann are grandchildren, the listing doesn't indicate whose children they are and I suppose just because William is widowed, doesn't "necessarily" mean they are his, considering they did have a daughter Ann born abt 1840.
I'm really frazzled now! Was Pass HADDOCK and Pass GOULDEN 1891 the same person? If he was, why was he given his mother Ann's surname even though his parents were married?
On Ann's tombstone, her maiden name is listed as BOND.
?? Questions, questions and no answers (
Dallas
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Cheshire, Eng: HADDOCK, WORRALL, BOND, OAKES, DICKINSON, DIMELOW
Lancashire, Eng: LITTLER, FARRIMOND, WARD
Renfrewshire, Scotland: HART, PARK
Lanarkshire, Scotland: AIRTH, PARK, URIE, SMELLIE, CRAWFORD
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Manchester Rambler
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I don't know whether this marriage is a piece of the puzzle (and don't have time to follow it up right now!), but it seemed interesting....
Marriages 1861-1865
CARTER Ann
GOULDING Henry
Great Budworth, St Mary
FreeBMD has the marriage Dec Q 1861, but transcribes Ann's surname as CORKER.
Deaths Dec 1870
GOULDING Ann 26
Northwich 8a 173
Rambler
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ANT: Nesbit, Potts CHS: Gosling, Hinton, Johnson, Marsland, Sorton LAN: Barlow, Jackson, James, Potts, Sorton MAY: Caulfield, Griffin SAL/STS: Goodwin, Gregory SOM: Dowding, James, Jones Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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DS
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Hi Dallas
I am very sorry for causing you problems  . We are supposed to provide answers, not burden you with extra questions...but alas, here might be the source of even more questions.....
Have a look at a Martha Collier on the 1901 census at RG13/3591 Folio 112 Page 11 and check an 1890 marriage. They are listed as Collver in 1891 (apart from the daughter Eve who is still shown as Haddock and living with her grandfather, George Dickenson).
Is it the same Martha Dickenson or is it just another wierd coincidence ?
It looks like it could be the same lady to me. I cannot see another Martha Dickenson who married anyone called Haddock in the appropriate time frame.
DS
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dalj
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DS -
YES, this Martha COLLIER was Alfred's 1st wife -- I am guessing they got a divorce because in 1890 she married Thomas COLLIER. This is what was sent to me for the 1891 CENSUS:
11 Manchester Road, Marsland Green, Astley
Thomas COLLIER Head Marr 30 Coal Miner Aspull
Martha " Wife Marr 29 Leigh
Mary " Dau 5 "
Ruth " Dau 3 "
John " Son 2 Mths "
There are a few mistakes -- Martha was born in Runcorn, Cheshire according to her birth cert.
Mary and Ruth are both surnamed HADDOCK [yes, Ruth was born AFTER Alfred HADDOCK married Hannah BOND/Ann GOULDING.
* *
Here they are in 1901 CENSUS:
Lower Lane, Astley page 11 folio 112 Fiche RG13/3591 3 - 63
Thomas Collier Head Marr age 39 Coal miner born Astley
Martha Collier Wife Marr age 38 born Cheshire, Runcorn
Eve Haddock Step-Dr Single age 18 Ring frame doffer-cotton mill born Astley
Mary Haddock Step-Dr Single age 14 Frame tenter.Card------ born Atherton
Ruth Haddock Step-Dr age 13 Ring frame doffer-cotton mill born Atherton
John Collier Son age 10 born Astley
Thomas Collier Son age 8 born Astley
Annie Collier Dr age 6 born Atherton
Fred Collier Son age 5
Betsy Collier Dr age 2 born Astley
George Dickenson Boarder Widwr age 40 Coal miner (hewer) born Cheshire. Winsford (This George is Martha's brother)
* *
It looks as though from the message from Rambler, that Pass and Ann GOULDEN were the children of Ann CARTER & Henry GOULDING and that she died young.
Dallas
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Cheshire, Eng: HADDOCK, WORRALL, BOND, OAKES, DICKINSON, DIMELOW
Lancashire, Eng: LITTLER, FARRIMOND, WARD
Renfrewshire, Scotland: HART, PARK
Lanarkshire, Scotland: AIRTH, PARK, URIE, SMELLIE, CRAWFORD
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dalj
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Rambler,
Yes, this marriage looks like the 'winner' )
Now, the only problem or question left is why Ann GOULDING was married to Alfred HADDOCK as Hannah BOND?
Why was Pass HADDOCK also registered as Pass GOULDING when his parents were married a few years before his birth?
I am no longer frazzled and I always find that more questions usually lead to solving the puzzle more completely )
Dallas
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Cheshire, Eng: HADDOCK, WORRALL, BOND, OAKES, DICKINSON, DIMELOW
Lancashire, Eng: LITTLER, FARRIMOND, WARD
Renfrewshire, Scotland: HART, PARK
Lanarkshire, Scotland: AIRTH, PARK, URIE, SMELLIE, CRAWFORD
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DS
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Hi
Deeper and deeper into the mire....
I have access to "Divorces & Matrimonial Causes 1858 - 1903" and there is no mention of an Alfred and/or Martha Haddock.
Another interesting (and confusing) thing is that there is the birth registration in Northwich in 1861 for an Alfred Haddock and another registration for an Alfred Haddock in Runcorn in 1863. I would think that these are two different people.
From the newspaper item in 1887 the age of the Alfred who was imprisoned is given as 24. Could we (meaning us and whoever else has provided you with the other information that you have) possibly be mixing up two different Alfred Haddocks somewhere along the line ? Only one of them seems to appear on the censuses...the one from Barnton (Northwich).
Maybe the other one was on his (unmoored) boat each night of the census...when he was not in prison ....or he had died before 1890 thus allowing Martha to remarry to Mr Collier (without herself having to go to prison for the same offence).
Have you actually got a photograph of Ann’s tombstone saying her maiden name was Bond ? That seems to me to be the only thing which rules out the possible scenario that it was the other Alfred who was married to Martha and Hannah, whilst the Alfred from Barnton (son of Thomas and Ann) lived with Ann Goulden (but maybe never married her) and he died in 1919.
DS
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dalj
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DS -
To begin with I found it hard to believe that Alfred HAYDOCK who married Hannah BOND could do so legally in a church when still married to Martha DICKINSON.
But, alas, it seems that by using HAYDOCK as his surname, he had no difficulty until someone at his 1st home found out and that gave way to his monumental imprisonment of 1 month!
Here's how I know it's the same Alfred -- I have his and Martha's marriage cert ~
Marriage Certificate / Registration District
(No 428) Marriage Solemnized at the Parish Church in the Parish of Tyldesley in the county of Lancaster.
Alfred HADDOCK, age 20, bachelor, boatman, living in Tyldesley, father=Thomas HADDOCK, boatdriver.
Martha DICKENSON, age 18, spinster, throstle spinner, living in Tyldesley, father=Jonathan DICKENSON, deceased.
Married according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Established Church by BANNS.
Both Alfred and Martha made their mark X which was witnessed by John Hodges (signed) and Ann Beadshaw who made her mark.
Perhaps Martha went ahead and did the same thing when she married Thomas COLLIER and because her 1st husband was already married and no penalty other than 1 measly month in prison, there was no one to really be concerned about it all ?
Dallas
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Cheshire, Eng: HADDOCK, WORRALL, BOND, OAKES, DICKINSON, DIMELOW
Lancashire, Eng: LITTLER, FARRIMOND, WARD
Renfrewshire, Scotland: HART, PARK
Lanarkshire, Scotland: AIRTH, PARK, URIE, SMELLIE, CRAWFORD
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dalj
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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DS --
Here's the info I was given a few days ago by a fellow doing genealogy research for the village of Lostock Gralam.
BURIALS at St John the Evangelist Lostock Gralam
Alfred HADDOCK 11 School Lane Feb 25 (28) 1919 March 1 1919 58 (57) Husband of Hannah (Ann) HADDOCK nee BOND
Ann HADDOCK January 5 1949 79 nee BOND Widow of Alfred HADDOCK B 81
* *
He also sent me this HADDOCK marriage at St John but I have not been successful at all in placing either Mary Elizabeth or her father Thomas (
Marriage at St John the Evangelist Lostock Gralam
11 May 1875
John Thomas Holland Signalman 23 Bach Urmston John Holland Shoemaker
Mary Elizabeth Haddock 26 Spin Lostock Gralam Thomas Haddock Flatman
BANNS
WITNESSES George Haddock, Lizzie Holland
* *
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Cheshire, Eng: HADDOCK, WORRALL, BOND, OAKES, DICKINSON, DIMELOW
Lancashire, Eng: LITTLER, FARRIMOND, WARD
Renfrewshire, Scotland: HART, PARK
Lanarkshire, Scotland: AIRTH, PARK, URIE, SMELLIE, CRAWFORD
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manmack
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Posts: 2025
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hiya dallas.
heres alfred [jnr]
pte 14750 alfred haddock
enlisted 1-9-1914 at northwich
cheshire regt
aged 19
occupation,labourer
address.11 school lane,lostock,northwich[father alfred]
religion,protestant
discharged from the army on 14-10-1914,physically unfit for further service,he was suffering from heart dilitation.
description.
height.5ft 8inch
eyes.brown
hair.light brown
weight.130Ibs.
mack
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military history,mainly ww1,manchester pals battalions,tyneside irish +tyneside scottish brigades,leeds,liverpool,accrington,birmingham,hull,barnsley,swansea and salford pals.
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