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Topic: I'm very confused re: 1851 census results (Read 559 times)
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rcorris
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 78
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Hi,
I have just been onto www.dumgal.go.uk/... (after days of no access) and looked at the 1851 census. I was trying to find my gt-gt-g-mother Margaret Fraser (d/o James Fraser[army sargeant] and Grace Caven - source scotlandspeople.gov.uk, death entry). What I knew of Margaret was that she was born between 1833&1838 in Kirkpatrick, Kirkcudbrightshire and was living in Dumfries from 1858-1891.
In the 1851 census online I find a household:
1 Mill St(821) Dumfries, Household #18/15
Catherine Millar, head, 56, married, b.Ireland
Grace Caven, dau of Cath Millar, 21, weaver, unmarried, b.Kirkpatrick Kbt
Margaret Fraser, dau of Cath Millar, 17, weaver, unmarried, b.Kirkpatrick Kbt
Margaret Bottomley, g-dau of Cath Millar, 5mths, b.Dumfries
PLUS - 4 unrelated lodgers.
Two questions emerge from this for me:
- Why does no-one in this household have the same surname?
- Is it pure coincidence that a Margaret Fraser and a Grace Caven are living in the same house - even though according to the ages there is no way this Grace Caven can be Margaret's mother?
If anyone can help to clear up what might be going on here (any theories welcome  !) I would greatly appreciate it. No matter how I look at it I just can't make it fit the information I have. I've been onto familysearch.org trying various combinations of the surnames for births/marriages but haven't found anything useful there.
Thanks,
Ruth
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Logged
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England: Green, Povey, Bedford, Bridgland, Catlin, Patton
Scotland: Fraser, Kennedy, Kelly, Hean, Higgins
Isle of Man: Corris, Faragher, Corkill, Shimmin
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longshanks
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 62
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People's declarations in the census can be confusing, some widows using their maiden name, some using assumed names. Just seems likely that Catherine Miller might have married several times, to Caven when she had Grace, to Fraser when she had Margaret and finally to Miller, also deceased. The clue might be to find the maiden name of the grand-daughter's mother.
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Logged
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Beattie,Edwards,Hope,Jarman,McLuckie, Meason, Murray, Summers, Welsh, Wilde, Wemyss, Wright
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Boongie Pam
Moderator
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2456
Lilian Palmer 1923 to 1987
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Another thought would be that the "unmarried" bit is wrong on one or other of the daughters. I have seen that before.
Where would you expect them in 1841? I may have access to the film.
P 
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Logged
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All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright~~~~~~~~~~~ Dumfrieshire: Fallen, Fallon, Carruthers, Scott, Farish, Aitchison, Green, Ryecroft, Thomson, Stewart Midlothian: Linn/d, Aitken, Martin North Wales: Robins(on), Hughes, Parry, Jones Cumberland: Lowther, Young, Steward, Miller Somerset: Palmer, Cork, Greedy, Clothier http://fallon.rootschat.net
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longshanks
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 62
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Kirkpatrick Kbt as well as Dumfries seems logical. The grand-daughter of 5 mo is born in Dumfries but the two daughters are not. You could search either the IGI or Scotlandspeople websites to see if you can identify the different surnames at this time, but remember some parish records in Dumfriesshire are incomplete. Unfortunately I'm not familiar with Kirkpatrick Kbt.
The 1841 Census doesn't show relationships
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Beattie,Edwards,Hope,Jarman,McLuckie, Meason, Murray, Summers, Welsh, Wilde, Wemyss, Wright
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rcorris
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 78
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I would expect MY Margaret Fraser to be in either Kirkudbrightshire or Dumfries in 1841. The information I have on her is:
b. 1834-1838 (1891 census has age 57, death cert in 1908 has age 70) in Kirkpatrick, Kircudbrightshire (source 1891 census).
living in Dumfries 1858-1891 (all children born there, living there in 1891 census)
death registered in Troqueer, Kirkcudbrightshire in 1908.
Death entry lists Father: John Fraser, army sergeant, Mother: Grace Caven.
I have looked on scotlandspeople for a birth entry but there are so many Margaret Frasers, and I can't find one with parent surname CAVEN (Cavan, Cavin etc) or one born in Kirkcudbrightshire to a John and Grace. I can't look for a marriage entry (to confirm father/mother names) as it appears she never married John Bedford (father of all her children and living with her in 1891) even though she is listed as his wife in the census and widow on her death entry - am assuming they just claimed to be married. Some of their children are listed as illegitimate in their birth entries, some aren't. Possible they got married at some stage and I just can't find the entry.
If anyone has access the the 1841 census and can have a look for either the family I found in 1851 (Millar/Caven/Fraser etc) or the Margaret I have given details for above that would be fanstastic. Also, if someone has easy access to the actual 1851 census pages to check that there aren't any transcription errors that would also be useful.
I was so excited to find a Grace Caven/Margaret Fraser connection that it is quite frustrating not to be able to clear up this confusion - even if only to eliminate them as MY people.
Any help greatly appreciated.
Cheers,
Ruth
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Logged
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England: Green, Povey, Bedford, Bridgland, Catlin, Patton
Scotland: Fraser, Kennedy, Kelly, Hean, Higgins
Isle of Man: Corris, Faragher, Corkill, Shimmin
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