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Topic: David Balharry - Scotland to Chile (Read 1338 times)
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AMBLY
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Hi Lass and JAP
I'm thinking there is a strong liklihood that Adam BALHARY age 7 from the 1841, with Jean JAFFREY age 30 is connected? They were at Step Row in Dundee in 1841, both listed as born Angus.
The IGI has just one Jean (Janet) JAFFREY born abt 1811 in Angus.
These are the parents listed and all the children who are on the IGI:
Father: Thomas JAFFREY
Mother: Isobel BRUCE
Children - all christened Newtyle , Angus
James JAFREY chr 15 May 1799
Alexander JAFFREY chr 15 Jun 1800
Margaret JAFFREY chr 5 Sep 1802
Jean JAFFREY chr 5 Apr 1807
It's pretty certain, the IGI family is the one from which the Census Jean springs from.........as follows
http://www.fdca.org.uk/howff.htm
The HOWFF cemetery Dundee database
Has the following entry:
#419 - Jean JAFFRAY age 36, born Newtyle
Buried 16 Jul 1845
Died of Consumption
Her last address was: Step Row, Perth Road
Daughter of the late Thomas JAFFREY, Farmer
The indications are that Jean died unmarried (else the burial record may have been expected to say she was a widow of etc). If this is on the right track - Adam might possibly be Jean's nephew? And Jean's sister Margaret could be the one who married David BALHARRY? And possibly making Adam their firstborn....but not finding anything on him at all apart from this one Census entry.
If the above Margaret JAFFREY is 'our one, then she would have been at least 31 when she married David BALHARRY......
Lass, what part of Chile do you have the family recorded in at the earliest time? Do you know anything about where the railway was that David was working on?
cheers
AMBLY
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Lass
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Posts: 165
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Good morning AMBLY 
I had the feeling Jean and Adam must have been related somehow, too much of a coincidence I guess, but you certainly have been busy!!! Well done AMBLY, once again you've come up trumps!!! 
Newtyle was a definite favourite with the Balharry family, and the immediate surrounding area, so it's no surprise to find that these connected Jaffreys come from there too.
I've spent most of today searching census under variations of spelling of Balharry that I haven't tried before - had some success but not the ones I was looking for! I wonder about Adam being with, it would appear, his aunt. Given that I can find absolutely no trace of David Balharry and wife Margaret anywhere on any census, do you agree that this would suggest they'd already left the country? If Benjamin Franklin was born in 1849 in Chile, it would seem that between Adam's birth in c.1834 and the census of 1841, they may have already emigrated. If the birth date for Margaret according to the IGI record is correct (and I'll check SP just to make sure), then this would make her 47 when Benjamin Franklin was born - this helps a bit because I always presumed 'our' David would be younger than is now apparent. I've also been trawling the emigration records but rather than going in with variations on the surname spelling, I'm using wildcards, so it's slow going.
I have a birth cert for David Balharry, son of David Balharry and May Fleeming, born in Longforgan in 1806 - I'm off to see what more I can find on this particular David ............
My cousins tell me that David and his sister lived in Burdeos - I have a suspicion that this is incorrect and that she is confused with Burdeos, France, where the sister later ended up with her French husband as I have tried to google Burdeos, Chile and am getting nothing except a reference to wine! Perhaps it's known as a region where they grow the wine.... The living grandson tells that David went to work on the construction of part of the Chilean railway network in the north of Chile (that is the internal railway line, not the Chile-Bolivia line for example) and that the work on the line was completed in 1865. Family legend on the Scottish side initially believed David to have been a direct relative to me, born in 1840 but I have since discounted this particular ancestor as other records contradict this. But, interestingly, the grandson is suggesting that the date of birth would fit with his understanding of David being very young when he 'arrived' in Chile.
They are certainly still working on the premise that David was born here, but I agree with the idea, from the knowlege you've gleaned so far, that this seems unlikely and that it was actually his father who arrived first.
All I have from the cousins on the elusive sister is that she married the French consul in Concepcion.
Another interesting snippet I've just connected after reviewing my online conversation with my cousin: 'their' David, who married Benigna Nunez de la Vega had 7 children, one of whom was named Benjamin - I know that was a popular name in Chile, but for me it harks back to Benjamin Franklin 
I'm sorry folks, I've just realised I'm rambling again, I seem to be incapable of making a short post!!
Thank you again AMBLY, it's so wonderful to be in touch with you as you obviously know from experience where to look next!! I haven't spoken to my cousin this weekend, so fingers crossed I'll maybe catch up with her tonight.....
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AMBLY
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Hi Lass
You make me blush, really! I was just luckly enough to find Benjamin on the 1861, is all! And if not for JAP's very informed questions and information, I wouldn't have even got to that As to where to look next, well I truly have no idea apart form the ususal, narrowing down of locations and a bit of 2 +2 ing
My feeling is that David snr and Margaret surely must have left the Scotland sometime prior to Benjamin being born (all the while, assuming the information of the death cert was correct in naming his parents as it did).
If Adam was their son, I would also like to think they are still in the UK if not Scotland in 1841 too.... wish I could find them, and wish we could discover what David did for a living when he was in Scotland. A wonderful mystery all round, it's like it's all there on the tongue-tip - waiting for that one little trigger
My thoughts, with trying to pin down the earliest known locations of the Chilean family, is to then be able to find Churches in the area which may have records, of their baptism, marriages and burials..........a headstone would be Perfick, with all the dates and names listed and still legible, of course....
Burdeos or Burdeaos - translates into "Bordeaux" or "Burgundy" (there's the vino again!).
The only reference I can find to "Burdeos" in Chile is :
Roca Villa do Burdeos, which as far I can work out, a geographical location - like a Coral Rock or something, a scenic landmark, 43K from Concepcion......in the Biobio valley.
http://water.worldcitydb.com/roca_villa_do_burdeos_159170.html
http://www.tageo.com/index-e-ci-v-06-d-159170.htm
http://travelingluck.com/South%20America/Chile/B%C3%ADo-B%C3%ADo/_3965321_Roca+Villa+do+Burdeos.html#themap
It sort of seems in the right area, doesn't it? Could they have live near it perhaps? Unless it had a house perched on top of it!!
Hmmm!
cheers
AMBLY
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Lass
RootsChat Member
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi AMBLY
I got no more than a mere couple of minutes, literally, talking with Chile last night. The grandson still maintains that his grandfather was not born in Chile so I'm going to keep looking to see if I can maybe find his birth here, before David and Margaret left. It turns out that my cousins have a portrait of David snr which in my opinion reasserts his presence in Chile. Maria (my cousin) tells me that she's tried to research David jnr but as he 'was not born in Chile' they have no records - also, unfortunately this David is not going to make it easy for us - he apparently was killed in an accident ......... at sea!
I have tried every variation in spelling that I can think of for the 1841 census but just can't track them down. That said, I also can't find any record of Adam's birth, but I really do think that if he was living with his Aunt (presumed) at the time of the cenus, it was because his parents weren't around. If that's the case, I do wonder why the didn't take him with them.....
Have you any ideas on the likely route that would have been taken to get from Scotland to Chile? Hmm just had a thought, I wonder if they moved down south prior to leaving Britain, I didn't think to check census records other than Scotland...... sorry, I'm thinking aloud now!! I hope I'm making my ponderings clear as it seems we are now talking about 2 different Davids!!
I assume that the northern region of Chile where the wine is grown is referred to as Burdeos since the wine originated from Burdeos, France, but I'll need to get more info from Maria I think.
Ok, off to check more records and watch the F1 racing at the same time...... think maybe I should make a pot of coffee first!
Lass x
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JAP
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Hi again Lass,
Going back to basics ...
The only linked paper trail we have is (I think):
* a Benjamin Franklin BALHARRY, aged 21 (ie b ca 1849), born Chile, died in Montrose, Angus in May 1870, parents given as David BALHARRY (occupation not stated) & Margaret JAFFREY; Benjamin had been boarding in the family of a schoolmaster in Forfar, Angus in 1861.
* a David BALHAREY & a Margaret JAFFREY married in Dundee, Angus in 1833.
(Of course, there might even have been two couples called David BALHARRY & Margaret JAFFREY - but I think that would be too much of a co-incidence!)
If at all possible, it would be good to find out whether the Chilean rells can research the birth of Benjamin in Chile ... and perhaps thus find out more about his parents?
Perhaps I've missed something but I don't recall that we've seen anything which definitely identifies David B & Margaret JAFFREY who m in Angus in 1833, to the David B who married Benigna Nunez in Chile and had children with her.
The baptism of a son, Jose David BALHARRY, to David B & Benigna in 1878 in San Isidro, Santiago, Chile is in the IGI - perhaps that actual record might reveal something (occupation of that David B, godparents, etc?). I guess the film/fiche could be ordered in to your local LDS Family History centre.
I can't recall whether you've obtained the OPR entry for the marriage of David B & Margaret JAFFREY? Probably no further clues but ...
JAP
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Scotland - HALL, HARLEY, LOCHTY/LOCHTIE/LOUGHTIE/LOUGHTY (very rare), MCLAUSE/MCLAWS/MCILHOSE/HOSE (quite rare and many very variable spellings - close to 100 to date), PHILP/PHILIP, VASSIE; Ireland - BOURKE/BURKE, DONOHUE (many spellings), DOOLEY, KINSELLA, MAXWELL, OSBORNE, RAFFERTY, STA(U)NTON, SULLIVAN; England - BAYES, BROWNELL, DALTON, FREEMAN, HACKING, PIERCY, SIDDLE, SWIFT, SULLIVAN, TINK(L)ER, TRIPPIT. Any spellings and many other names!
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Lass
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 165
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi JAP
Yes, you are correct about the paper trail we have - so far
I have the OPR marriage for David Balharey and Margaret Jaffrey, m. 20/04/1855 Dundee
Margaret is detailed as the daughter of Tho. Jaffrey, Shoemaker
Stat Death of Benjamin Franklin Balharry d. 31/05/1870 aged 21 Montrose, Forfar.
Parents detailed as David Balharry & Margaret Jaffrey
1841 Census for Forfar, showing Benjamin Franklin Batharry aged 12, born in Chile.
1841 Census for Dundee, showing Adam Balhary, aged 7, born in Angus, living with Jean Jaffrey.
I really don't believe it's too much of a leap to assume these are all linked but I do wish I could find something more on David and Margaret.
I need to get Maria to try to research as you suggest JAP - this probably hasn't occurred to them because they've always assumed a generation further on.
Re the 'link' between David and Margaret Jaffrey and the David who married Benigna Nunez - the only thing this is based on is the assertion from my cousin that 'her' David's mothers' maiden name was Jeffers or similar (she was unsure about spelling and of course it's probably contorted slightly over the years). Again it is understood the father of David, who married Benigna, was also David.
I am aware of the IGI for Jose David Balharry, but frustrated by the fact that I can't trace any other records for baptisms prior to that, for Benjamin Franklin for example.
Is it just me or are all these Davids confusing?
Lass x
Note: I've just realised that, unlike the other entries on the same page as David and Margaret's marriage, there is no occupation noted for David.
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Lass
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I'm just thinking aloud now, and putting this in here in case I forget the thought!!
It's possible the David and his sister who are asserted to have arrived in Chile and started that line, actually were born in Scotland, but arrived in Chile with their parents. If David B and Margaret Jaffrey were married in 1833 they had plenty time to have kids before their possible arrival in Chile in c.1850. Although Adam (if connected) was born 1834, it is possibly more likely that their first child would have been named David (I know, huge assumption, but still....).
Also, I'm wondering what happened to Adam - if he was still alive when Jean Jaffrey died about 6 years after he appears on the census with her - was he already dead, and if not, where did he go?
Like I say, just setting my thoughts down, don't pay too much attention to my ramblings!!
Lass x
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JAP
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Hi again Lass,
Yes, I've still been mulling over it too 
It certainly would be good if the Chilean descendants could follow up on paper trails at their end. Things are going back a fair way (1849 at least - Benjamin Franklin's estimated birthdate - in Chile). Also, with all the various people called David etc it's quite possible that family stories are not absolutely correct, or that generations might have been mixed up - it's happened to nearly all of us!
I'm also wondering about British consular records and similar. I'm sure I recall threads on RC where people found such records for births overseas. Does the 1861 census image describe Benjamin as a British Subject? If so, one would think there might have been a consular record.
Another thing that struck me is whether the Chilean descendants have found any Monumental Inscriptions which might include family information.
Similarly whether you have looked into MIs in Angus. I've come across some in Fife where a family monument has had very useful information added to it re people who have died overseas.
JAP
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Scotland - HALL, HARLEY, LOCHTY/LOCHTIE/LOUGHTIE/LOUGHTY (very rare), MCLAUSE/MCLAWS/MCILHOSE/HOSE (quite rare and many very variable spellings - close to 100 to date), PHILP/PHILIP, VASSIE; Ireland - BOURKE/BURKE, DONOHUE (many spellings), DOOLEY, KINSELLA, MAXWELL, OSBORNE, RAFFERTY, STA(U)NTON, SULLIVAN; England - BAYES, BROWNELL, DALTON, FREEMAN, HACKING, PIERCY, SIDDLE, SWIFT, SULLIVAN, TINK(L)ER, TRIPPIT. Any spellings and many other names!
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Lass
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Posts: 165
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi JAP
The 1861 census for Benjamin is the document that advises he was born in Chile so I'm not sure how much documentation would be availble to us via consular records, but it's worth the hunt! I also didn't think about MI's although I'm not sure my ancestors had the money for that Still, it's another avenue to check, so thank you for the suggestion
I've just fired off an email to Maria outlining our latest belief that David jnr was not the first David over there and asking her to see what she can find on the Chile end. I know that there's a fairly well-known burial monument in Chile that is connected to Rosa, the daughter of David B and Benigna Nunez - not yet sure whether it originated from Rosa's husband's family or not, but it's another clue for the cousins to check.
I've trawled the 1841 English census but can't find David and Margaret there either so I think I'll head back to the emigration passenger records for a while. Or try to hunt down some more information on Adam...... or ....... or ........
Lass x
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JAP
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Just another quick comment re info given in earlier posts.
Margaret J who married in 1833 was recorded at her marriage as daughter of Thomas J, a Shoemaker
Jean J who died in 1846 was recorded at her marriage as daughter of Thomas J, a Farmer
JAP
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Scotland - HALL, HARLEY, LOCHTY/LOCHTIE/LOUGHTIE/LOUGHTY (very rare), MCLAUSE/MCLAWS/MCILHOSE/HOSE (quite rare and many very variable spellings - close to 100 to date), PHILP/PHILIP, VASSIE; Ireland - BOURKE/BURKE, DONOHUE (many spellings), DOOLEY, KINSELLA, MAXWELL, OSBORNE, RAFFERTY, STA(U)NTON, SULLIVAN; England - BAYES, BROWNELL, DALTON, FREEMAN, HACKING, PIERCY, SIDDLE, SWIFT, SULLIVAN, TINK(L)ER, TRIPPIT. Any spellings and many other names!
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AMBLY
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Hi Lass and JAP
Me just thinking out loud too.....some scearios:
if David B and Margaret J married 1833 and if Adam was theirs and if naming patterns were followed -it might be that David's father would be Adam and so named the first born after him..... or that they had children quickly and Adam was the 2nd born named after Margaret's father. But then, it appears Margaret's father was Thomas the shoemaker*
Adam was theirs. but his first name was not Adam (ie Adam was a to-name or middle-name)
Adam was hers but not his
Adam was theirs but born before marriage
Adam was Jean's son - but Jean is Margaret's sister and they both got involved with BALHARRY lads!
Jean is related to Margaret but not as sisters.
So, I would also searching for Adam as a J*FF*R*Y - JEFF*R*Y baptism / death.
Re the Chilean records - I would definitely try to find the name and location of any Church where any earliest possible event was recorded. And more about that accident at sea for David Jnr. - would there be a newspaper article about it, perhaps.
cheers
AMBLY
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Lass
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Hellooooooooooo
Just when I was starting to be disheartened for the day, with no progress at all, I've found the following IGI records -
Christening 08/01/1878 Milton Bryant, Bedford, England
Rosa Eloisa Balharry
Parents David Balharry and Benigna Nunez
Christening 09/07/1878 Milton Bryant, Bedford, England
Jose David Balharry
Parents David Balharry and Benigna Nunez
Christening 14/07/1878 Milton Bryant, Bedford, England
Josefa Elena Balharry
Parents David Balharry and Benigna Nunez
I was going to head over to SP but this is a christening record which of course won't be on there, dammit. I'll see if English census might be able to shed more light, but I had to share!!
My 16 year old son has just asked me why I'm grinning at him like a fool!!! Sorry, it's just the sense of victory, small though it may be - I know you all share that feeling, but I'm going to wallow in it for a wee while!
Lass x
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Lass
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Are you sick of me yet??
Since I'm getting a ton of hits for IGI South America when I google Milton Bryant, can I take it that it has some consular connections do you think??
I'm sure one of you will know the answer
Lass x
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AMBLY
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Wahoohey! Lass! Forget grinning - I'm dancing Wonderful find - clever you!
That looks like a Batch christening almost doesn't it - I suspect they were not in the country (England) for the event(s) ..........
If, on the IGI page - you follow the SOURCE number for that Batch C003791
It says:
Registros parroquiales, 1686-1970 Iglesia Católica. San Isidro (Santiago, Santiago)
Translated:
Parochial Registers 1686 - 1970 English Catholics, Sab Isidro (Santiago)
Is the family Catholic in Chile?
If you follow that link, it goes to more on another page....... How is your Spanish?
I can get the gist of quite a bit and can work out pretty much in full eventually, if you need any help!
Otherwise, Babel Fish can be helpful!
http://babelfish.altavista.com/
My thinking is now - to try find a batch with deaths and marriages on it, starting with the San Isidro Parish!
Wahoo! (again )
Cheers
AMBLY
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AMBLY
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Tons of batches to choose from, if you "View the Film Notes"
Would be nice to find some on-line at least, but suspect you may have to order film in for at least some of them.... then of course, which year batch to order
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