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Topic: David Balharry - Scotland to Chile (Read 2066 times)
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Lass
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 405
my beautiful mum
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OH MY GOD, AMBLY I LOVE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just cannot BELIEVE that we've been doing all this checking through records, and low and behold, a simple google search delivers the goods!!!!!!!!! 
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I really can't thank you enough AMBLY, you've made my day, week, month, YEAR!!!
I'm so excited, I need to go and dance around the house!!!!!!!!
And again, WOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!
love and kisses and hugs and dance, dance, dance
Lass x
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JAP
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 4466
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AMBLY, Another absolutely brilliant find. Congratulations!!
Just for completeness (though this pales into utter insignificance alongside AMBLY's find  ) ...
... JAP, I find I can't search on Family Search using first name and county/town without being asked to put in the fathers/mothers name. ... Lass, Would I lie to you?
Truly, you can search just as I described.
Were you perhaps trying the "All Resources" search on FamilySearch? That doesn't work - one can search there by surname only plus country etc but not by given name only.
Give it another go but in the IGI.
As I mentioned above (emphasis added):
"2. You can search the IGI on FamilySearch by given name and country.
For instance, you can do searches for
- given name Adam, region British Isles, country Scotland, county Angus
- given name Adam, region South America, country Chile
In such searches, you can even specify an event, and a time period.
However, if you want to tick exact spelling for the given name, then all you can specify is the region."
Incidentally, 'given name only' searches can also be carried out in the Census, US SSDI, and Vital Records Index sections of FamilySearch.
Cheers,
JAP
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Lass
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 405
my beautiful mum
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JAP
Thanks for clarifying that, I think I may well have been using the All Resources search at the time  I'll blame it on the excitement Please be assured that everything you do to help me is seriously appreciated - the great finds are fabulous and I'm forever indebted to AMBLY but this is good, it means I can trawl through the records in a much easier fashion (for me anyhow) and when that helps me find some missing pieces, I'll have you to thank JAP!
Now I've had time to calm down slightly (and I mean only slightly!!) I notice that baby Margaret isn't with the family and may have died before they left, which is such a shame. However, that then does then suggest that my Chilean cousins 'David arrived with his sister' assertion points to Jane as being the elusive sister. The jigsaw is coming together!
I haven't had any communication at all with Chile for a while now, but I'm in the middle of an update email to them to confirm the details AMBLY has turned up.
For what it's worth, I tried a google search on Adam and came up with zip (other than this thread!!!) ....... are you in NZ AMBLY, is this why you got a hit?
I'm still grinning from ear to ear, I'm sure my work mates wonder what I've been up to 
Lass x
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JAP
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 4466
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Googling from Aus for
Adam + Balhary
(as AMBLY said - no quotes)
gets two RootsChat hits and then the passenger list is the third hit.
I don't know anything about NZ records but I wonder whether there are any BDM or other records of the family in NZ?
Next instalment?
JAP
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AMBLY
RootsChat Marquessate
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Falkland Islands "Desire The Right"
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Hi Lass and JAP
Glad you were happy with the news Lass, I consider myself now very well hugged What would we do without Google! I'm still grinning too - were you at work or at home when you read that passenger list?
Now the excitement has died down a bit I guess there are a new bundle of what if's to deal with.....
Did the family who arrived in NZ 1842 stay in NZ or pretty quickly set out for Chile?
Was Chile always their destination or did that move come later?
Did they all go to Chile! If Ben was born there in 1849-ish, only his mother had to have been there for the event.
If they did all go to Chile, did they all stay there after the 'job' was done? (not forgetting a sister supposedly married there and then went to France). If they left - where to next?
The present day Chilean family seem so certain that only David and sister arrived abt 1850. We have Ben supposedly born there abt 1849. This leaves 2 siblings (Adam, Ben), 2 parents and approx 7 years missing from their family knowledge.
For the benefit of the topic (and any more random Googlers out there):
Travelling in Steerage, David BALHARY 32, Carpenter, his wife Margaret 31 and their children: Adam 8, David 6 and Jane 3 - all arrived in Nelson ( north west tip South Island) New Zealand on 12 Dec 1842 on the barque "George Fyfe".
The ship had sailed from Gravesend, Kent on 16 Jun 1842, arrived in Wellington NZ (southern tip North Island) on 7 Nov 1842 before going on to Nelson.
The only reported death on the journey was of a boy named RHODES.
I am in NZ - but none of my ancestry is so I've never used the BMD's here etc. Perhaps a message ont the NZ Emigrants board might help - some wonderful kiwis on there with a lot of knowledge & resources!
The BALHARY's were not listed (as other's were) as disembarking in Wellington.
Nelson is Sth West across the Strait between NI and SI NZ - the journey could be rough and dangerous if the weather was bad - but it wouldn't have taken anywhere a near a month to make the crossing. So they were in Wellington for approx 3 weeks to a month. Would they have been on the ship or in lodgings during that time? Could Margaret have died in Wellington and not been included in the list of passengers who died on the ship - I suppose it might depend on when that actual list was compiled and how the compiler decided to include a child who may have got on board in UK, landed in Wellington but did not re-embark for the leg to Nelson?
They do appear on the Early Settlers Database:
http://www.ncc.govt.nz/net/settlers/search.aspx
But this may be because it is only assumed they did actually settle here?
Have also tried Papers Past:
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast
Can't see a death for Margaret in England - unless the surname is badly misread/written. If she died in the UK, perhaps it was in Scotland if her parents went back up to collect Adam from Newtyle?
I think as JAP suggested earlier, it may be worth trying to see if there are records of Ben's admission to the asylum? What was his cause of death, I wonder? Someone knew enough to (supposedly) correctly state Ben's parents details - including his mother's MS and his father's occupation - on his death cert. WHo provided that info? Was Ben well enough to provide it himself on admission? (sadly in those day's 'simply' being an epileptic (or a mother with Post-Natal Depression!) was enough to have one committed to a Lunatic Asylum). Maybe the record might state an address or more precise location of his parents or NOK?
This is turning into another novel, oops!
But Lass, before I go unexessarily pasting up a wall of links and sites on him - are you aware of the David BALHARRY who was in NZ from at least abt 1865 until his death in 1889? He was in West Otago at one stage I think, Hokitika and then from abt 1868 was in Napier (Hawkes Bay). From what I can gather, there were descendants of Peter Fenton BALHARRY in the Napier area, which I think are in your line? Maybe David was one of them, and you already have him sorted, so to speak?
Also there is another BALHARRY detective out there, who is also interested in the Chilean line - are you aware of this one:
http://groups.msn.com/scottishancestors2/test2.msnw?action=view_list&row=9&viewtype=2&sortstring
Cheers
AMBLY
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Lass
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 405
my beautiful mum
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Hi
I'm at work and stopped in for a quick peek, I think I might have to wait until tonight to digest most of that post AMBLY I was, thankfully (!) at home when I read your magnificent find post - my kids are used to seeing me whooping and dancing around the house for no apparent reason, so I didn't have too much explaining to do!! I did explain mind you, and of course was greeted with non-interested grunts, but hey, maybe in years to come they'll see the light!!!
Taking a look at some NZ genealogy sites, I came across this link from Ancestry, which shows some more detail on the passenger list, including the fact that David snr was the ships constable! Unfortunately the disembarking details are incomplete but given that they appear on the Early Settlers database one must assume they did indeed land in Nelson.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ourstuff/GeorgeFife.htm
I too had a look to see if I could find Margaret's death, but must confess I didn't consider that could have been in Scotland, it didn't really occur to me that they would have gone back to collect Adam, I presumed he would have been sent down to join them, but that's a very valid point I will look into. As is checking Benjamin's admittance to the asylum. I'm thinking out loud again, but I'm wondering if perhaps David and Margaret returned to Scotland with Benjamin and possibly Adam, leaving David and Jane behind in Chile. Random thoughts as I say, but it would at least go some way to explain why the cousins never knew anything about any of the rest of the family ever having been in the country, whether it was just David snr, or Margaret or all of them.
I'll certainly post for some help in the NZ/Aus threads and see if anything else can be turned up. I am aware of Peter Fenton Balharry's descendants, although from memory, I think they all ended up in Australia, which is now rich with Balharrys! He is of my line, the brother of my great, great grandfather. I also know the fellow Balharry researcher - I have to say she's done loads of work on the tree but as far as I'm aware doesn't have the line to Chile yet, although I haven't spoken with her in a while - she's the bidey-in of a Balharry in Canada who's my 3rd cousin! I got a wealth of information from her when I first starting researching and whilst I totally appreciate everything I got (saved me soooo much time and effort!!) I do like to verify everything I can myself and sift through the odd mistake.
Uh, looks like my quick post is a tad longer than I intended!!! Let's make a pact, no more apologies for long posts!! I'm going to take a closer look at all this when I get home, only another 6 hours or so...... itching ........
Lass x
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Lass
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 405
my beautiful mum
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Hi Lass and JAP I'm thinking there is a strong liklihood that Adam BALHARY age 7 from the 1841, with Jean JAFFREY age 30 is connected? They were at Step Row in Dundee in 1841, both listed as born Angus. The IGI has just one Jean (Janet) JAFFREY born abt 1811 in Angus. These are the parents listed and all the children who are on the IGI: Father: Thomas JAFFREY Mother: Isobel BRUCE Children - all christened Newtyle , Angus James JAFREY chr 15 May 1799 Alexander JAFFREY chr 15 Jun 1800 Margaret JAFFREY chr 5 Sep 1802 Jean JAFFREY chr 5 Apr 1807 It's pretty certain, the IGI family is the one from which the Census Jean springs from.........as follows http://www.fdca.org.uk/howff.htmThe HOWFF cemetery Dundee database Has the following entry: #419 - Jean JAFFRAY age 36, born Newtyle Buried 16 Jul 1845 Died of Consumption Her last address was: Step Row, Perth Road Daughter of the late Thomas JAFFREY, Farmer The indications are that Jean died unmarried (else the burial record may have been expected to say she was a widow of etc). If this is on the right track - Adam might possibly be Jean's nephew? And Jean's sister Margaret could be the one who married David BALHARRY? And possibly making Adam their firstborn....but not finding anything on him at all apart from this one Census entry. If the above Margaret JAFFREY is 'our one, then she would have been at least 31 when she married David BALHARRY......
This just popped into my head.
Both David and Margaret show on the 1841 census as 30 years old (not withstanding rounding up/down)
Both David and Margaret are shown on Passenger List of 1842 as 31 years old.
Is it too much to assume that both these records are actually showing the correct age? If they are, then both Margaret and David would have been born abt 1811 and would have been 22 when they married in 1833. JAP pointed out previously that Jean Jaffray has been established as the daughter of Thomas Jaffrey, Farmer on her death certificate, but on Margaret's marriage certificate she is daughter of Thomas Jaffrey, Shoemaker. I didn't really think about it for too long at the time, but it would now appear that JAP is correct in thinking that Jean and Margaret Jaffrey are very likely related, but not as sisters - unless the first Margaret died in childhood and the next daughter was named Margaret too - distinctly possible I know, but I am troubled by the change in father's occupation. Anyhow, just food for thought (as if we didn't have enough to ponder!!)!!
Lass x
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Lass
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 405
my beautiful mum
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Hi again 
I've nothing new for you unfortunately, just keeping you up to date on progress, hope you don't mind!
I've spent the last 2 days trawling Scottish IGI records -
I've checked every Scottish birth/baptism IGI record for David, born 1836 +/-5 years
I've checked every Scottish birth/baptism IGI record for Adam, born 1833 +/-5 years
and found nothing..... nada ..... zilch. 
So I assume either
a) the births/baptisms of these two were never recorded or if they were, the records didn't survive or weren't transcribed to LDS.
b) David and Margaret attended a 'breakaway' church,
c) the boys weren't christened Balharry or Jaffray
d) the boys weren't born in Scotland after all
I believe option 'a' is probably most likely. 'b' doesn't sit with me as David and Margaret's marriage was recorded 1833 and I can't see them changing so suddenly although I guess it's not impossible. Option 'c' I think is unlikely too, the boys were born after David and Margaret's marriage, so I see no reason why they wouldn't have been given either of their surnames. Option 'd' is one I'm going to give consideration to, simply because I think it's possible (not necessarily probable) that they were born elsewhere but determined as Scots because of their parentage. I'm going to leave that be for the moment, and check to see if I can find David senior's birth/baptism to at least figure out where he fits into my tree. Anyhow, your thoughts would be appreciated
Hope everyone's having a good weekend
Lass x
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Lass
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 405
my beautiful mum
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Edit - double post, sorry!!
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AMBLY
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 3349
Falkland Islands "Desire The Right"
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Hi Lass
Thanks for letting us know I didn't spot the new Kiwi topic, but def. still interested & glad to see you've met some of the great chatters there! Just had a good read, like reading a suspense Novel Lots of very interesting devolopments even though sad to say it's not looking like the hombre we really seek
I can quite understand the Call of the Forest, with having a new & intriguing David BALHARRY to sort out
Cheers
AMBLY
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Tazette
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 31
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let's not forget about our David Balharry- born ca. 1806 to David Balharry and May (Marjorie) Fle(e)ming) of whom nothing more has been found....
He is the right age to have married Margaret Jaffrey in 1833.
David's nephew, James, went to Australia & raised th original OZ branch there...
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Lass
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 405
my beautiful mum
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Taz, I'll pm/email you about David and May Fleeming as they worry me slightly. Were you aware that our (assumed) David 1775 was born just under 3 months before a young lady by the name of May Fleeming, in Airlie? It's something that's been bothering me for some time. Anyway, enough, I'll not hijack the thread anymore going off subject, look out for incoming!
Lass x
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Tazette
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 31
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am thrilled you took this branch on- Lass I had always wondered who Adam was....
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TORRES 33
RootsChat Pioneer
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Posts: 1
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Related to David Balharry:
I'am chilean. Rosa Balharry Nuñez de la Vega was the mother of my gran mother. She married Florindo Labbe. I've pictures of her.
If you want I can search. I live in Chile.
Regards
Francisco Torres Rodriguez
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