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Topic: henry green > 1890's excuted Wandsworth (Read 497 times)
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Valda
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If there was a Henry Green accused of murder in 1881 he wasn't hung either. Ineveitably with a surname like Green, someone somewhere is going to be involved in a serious crime.
Other than Wandsworth, the only London prison where capital punishment took place was Newgate which hanged nobody in 1891, 5 men in 1892 and 1 in each year thereafter up to 1895. The youngest of these was aged 24 in 1894.
Deaths Sep 1894
Koczula Paul 24 London C. 1c 16
Koezula Paul 24 London C. 1c 16
Deaths for all of them should register in London City.
I think the nearest other prisons which carried out capital punishment were Reading, Winchester and Chelmsford, but there are no Henry Greens or Greens hanged between 1891 and 1895.
Having someone hanged, even when it is in the extended family is generally not something which is quickly forgotten. My father's second cousin 4 times removed (so not a very close relationship - a marriage in the 1730s) was hung in the 1880s and the extended family all knew about it in the 50s and 60s. However my father's aunt (lots of aunts and uncles) went into an asylum for post-natal depression in 1920 when my father was a child, and remained there dying in the 1940s. None of us in our line of the family knew about that however.
You can't really cover up a hanging because of the press coverage of the trial etc and the effect it would have on all members of the extended family within the community. Placing close female members of the family in asylums however is strictly a family affair which can get hushed up within a generation!!
Regards
Valda
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frederickay
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hi i have reread the letter to me dated 1996.Dick Austen , the letter writer is quoted as saying;
' MY MOTHER (Ellen b. 1885 .not his grandmother as i thought ) painted a lurid story about the nite before Henry Green was to be hung ".
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The baby Richard Green, later known as Dick as well, was taken to the goal for the "last '' visit . He was then bought up by the Jutsums as their son.
As you can see Ellen would have been about 6/7 when all this was going on but as Henry Green and Frances were living with her and her parents in 1891 she must have had some kernel of truth.
I will trawl thru all the sites and find out what i can. thanks for all your info.
Jan
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valentine.fairhurst,hayes,hammond,codling,rust.norfolk.deyrujo.jutsum.wharton.lacey,probert,prickett,preby atherley-jones.london.
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PrueM
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Hi Jan,
It's sounding less likely that Henry Green was actually hanged, from the info found by Valda and others - executions seem to have been very well recorded at that time.
You just never know how families will deal with tragedy...in this case perhaps the tragedy was that Henry Green was imprisoned, or simply left his family, and Ellen was told a story about what had happened to him - it wouldn't be the first time  You wouldn't believe the web of lies spun by my great-grandmother to her daughter (my Nana) about great-gran's family history - none of her stories were anywhere near the truth and it took me years to untangle it all  But it was just the way some people coped with things.
Unfortunately I'm beginning to think this might be the case with your own family story...but I'll be very happy to be proved otherwise! (If it's possible to be happy about finding out someone was hanged  )
Cheers
Prue
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Paper and Photograph Conservator
I live in NSW, and am researching:
BALFOUR (Derry) BIGG (Kent) BONSALL (DBY, NTT, CHS) BRISBANE (Fife) DANKS (STS) DOBSON (BRK) FRANCIS (ESS) GOODE (HAM) HAYNES (Cork) INGRAM (MDX, SOM) LANGWORTHY (Jersey, DEV) MCKAY (Fife, Aberdeen, Banff, Moray, Inverness) MORRISH (LND) NANCARROW (CON) OGILVIE (Moray, LND) STRATHDEE (Banff) SWAN (Fife) WOOD (LND)
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frederickay
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hi ,yes when you look at the letter to me it is the "last nite before he is to BE hung ". never actually says "was hung ".
also if Henry green was still alive it might explain why Aunt Fan Jutsum never married Mr Pheby.
oh dear .close rrelatives are still alive ...  .
i will see what happenned . they didn't know he was hung,(they thinik he was now ,thanks to me and family lore )
but knew no more than, " he was a bad lot ".
we will see if they are got some papers somewhere . i will keep searching . Jan
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valentine.fairhurst,hayes,hammond,codling,rust.norfolk.deyrujo.jutsum.wharton.lacey,probert,prickett,preby atherley-jones.london.
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Valda
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Have you found Richard Green/Jutsum with the family on the 1901 census?
Did his grandmother remarry after the death or her husband?
Marriages Dec 1897
JUTSUM Charlotte St. Saviour 1d 164
either
BAILEY William St Saviour 1d 164
or
SMITH Edwin St Saviour 1d 164
On the 1901 census there is a Fanny/Frances aged 26 and born Chelsea, married and living in Lambeth to a George T. (homas) Pheby and three children aged 4 to 2 months. George Thomas also seems to have been married before. (There is only one George Thomas Pheby birth registered in the C19th)
Marriages Sep 1892
PHEBY George Thomas Lambeth 1d 722
either
COOLEY Rosina Lambeth 1d 722
or
DAWSON Laura Ada Lambeth 1d 722
More likely to Rosina and is so the marriage might very well have been short lived.
Regards
Valda
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Valda
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It might have been George Pheby who was not able to marry, not Fanny if there was an earlier marriage for him which failed. Or both may not have been able to remarry because of previous living spouses.
1901 census RG13 396 folio 72
24 Neckinger Bermondsey
Abram Moore 50 Head Married Tanner Norwich Norfolk
Sophia Moore 50 Wife Married Chelsea London
George Jutsum 18 Railway porter Earlsfield
Louisa Jutsum 20 Weaver Battersea London
Ellen Jutsum 19 Earlsfield
Charlie Jutsum 14 Battersea London
no relationships given to the younger Jutsums but from the 1891 census they are all stepchildren to Abraham, the children of Chalotte Sophia and George Caleb - no Richard Green/Jutsum with the family.
On the Commonwealth War Graves Commssion the only Richard Jutsum death is
JUTSUM, RICHARD CHARLES Private 121 02/03/1916 Unknown Royal Fusiliers United Kingdom Panel 25 to 27. LOOS MEMORIAL
who is probably this man
Births Mar 1888
JUTSUM Richard Charles Wandsworth 1d 617
recorded as Charles on the 1891 and 1901 censuses - Charlotte Sophia and George Caleb's son.
Of course there would be lots and lots of Richard Greens who died in the First World War so an impossible task to check them.
Richard wasn't with his grandmother on the 1901 census in either surname, or with his mother Fanny.
There were 13 male Green prisoners recorded in London on the 1901 census. One Henry aged 19 born St Lukes in Pentonville prison. 4 Greens in Wandsworth prison - Charles (born Kent aged 32), two Fredericks (born Blackfriars and Westminster aged 24 and 25) and a William (born Birmingham aged 37). Across the whole country there were 51 but only the one Henry, 2 Harrys born Derbyshire and Sussex.
The census index does not allow me to search on 'convicts' but by the look of it all prisoners in Wandsworth are recorded as prisoners and not convicts. There is an earlier distinction between the types of convicted men.
Regards
Valda
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Valda
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Jan
There doesn't appear to be a Richard Jutsum on the 1901 census or an obvious Richard Green. What evidence do you have that he existed? Certainly Ellen's younger brother Richard died in the First World War. Is there some confusion with him?
Regards
Valda
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Pages: 1 [2]
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. If Richard Green/Jutsum known as Dick. was bought up as Ellen's (George and Sophias daughter ) younger brother why isn't he in the 1901 census with Sophia