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Topic: Can anyone help please? (Read 167 times)
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katrinamawbey
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 67
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello everyone,
I was just wondering if any one could possibly help me trace a James Smith and his parents from Lancashire...
What i know already, is that James Smith was born abt 1838, Rochdale (may have been in Wuerdle&Wardel) and married a lady called Sarah (i believe in Scotland) but i do not know when, or what her surname is. I believe they had 4 known children, John, James, Charlot and Elizabeth. I dont know of any others.
I may have found James' parents, John and Betty. But I have no way of telling if they actually are his parents or not. I have searched through the census records and have picked out james living with John and betty in the 1841/1851 and 1861 census. I believe that these are his parents, as James was a coal miner, and that appears as his occupation in the 1851 census.
Ive tried searching records for John Smith, but i cant seem to get anywhere... If anyone could possibly help me, i would be extremely grateful!!!
Thanks in advance!
Katrina.
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kooky
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 989
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Where were John, Betty and James in 41, 51, and 61 censuses?
Where were the children born? How do you know they had 4 children?
Do you have a birth cert. for James?
If you could post this sort of detail someone may be able to help you.
Kooky
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Clulo - Staffs.,Warwickshire, Lancs.1780 -1950
Fisher- Nafferton,Hull, Manchester.1770-1840-1950
Kane&McNeill,Forkhill, Armagh and Glasgow,Bray Dublin.1850s -1920
Boshell and Dowzard- Dublin, 1840s -1911
Kay/Bremner Edinburgh 1800 - 1841.Kay Staffs.& Lancs1842 -1901
Kay - Newcastle on Tyne 1780-1861
Swindell[s], Marple & Manchester 1900->
Makinson, M/c & Prestwich 1870 ->
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Manchester Rambler
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 3093
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1871 census for family details:
RG10/4252/34/18
Jordan, Ingleton Fells, Yorks
James SMITH - Head - 33 - Railway Labourer - Rochdale
Sarah SMITH - Wife - 41 - Shropshire
John H SMITH - Son - 12 - Scotland
James SMITH - Son - 10 - Middlesex
Charlot SMITH - Dau - 4 - Derbyshire
Elizabeth SMITH - Dau - 3 - Derbyshire
(+ 8 boarders)
Rambler
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ANT: Nesbit, Potts CHS: Gosling, Hinton, Johnson, Marsland, Sorton LAN: Barlow, Jackson, James, Potts, Sorton MAY: Caulfield, Griffin SAL/STS: Goodwin, Gregory SOM: Dowding, James, Jones Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Manchester Rambler
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 3093
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James SMITH (coal miner), son of John and Betty, was living at home unmarried in 1861; he cannot therefore be the father of John H SMITH born c1858. 
There is quite a gap between the first 2 children and the last 2, so they may possibly be from 2 separate marriages.
Have you found any of the family in later censuses? I can't see them at the moment....
Rambler
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ANT: Nesbit, Potts CHS: Gosling, Hinton, Johnson, Marsland, Sorton LAN: Barlow, Jackson, James, Potts, Sorton MAY: Caulfield, Griffin SAL/STS: Goodwin, Gregory SOM: Dowding, James, Jones Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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andrewalston
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 362
My granddad
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James did get around a bit, didn't he?
"Charlot" would be the easiest to trace. Her birth cert would give Sarah's maiden name. With that we stand a good chance of finding the marriage, and hence John's father.
What a pity the enumerator didn't give us a clue what the town was.
There are only a few Charlotte Smiths born in Derbyshire in the right period. I think it might be worth a few quid on the birth cert for the girl born Q1 of 1867 in Chesterfield district. You can always cut the cost of failure by asking for the parents' names to be checked.
But I've just found what looks very much like them in 1861.
RG9/196 ed8 fol125 p28
7 Hamilton Rd Pentonville.
James Smith, Head, Mar, 26, Refiner?, Lancashire
Sarah do, wife, mar, 29, , Shropshire
John do, son, , 2, , Abbesfield (or Abberfield) Scotland
John's place of birth is not familiar to me, but I'm no scotsman.
Note that James junior is not at home, which probably means he was due to make his arrival, since he's down as 10 in 1871. So, he ought to be registered in Q2 of 1861. There are 5 James Smiths registered that quarter in the whole of Middlesex. The two most likely are the ones at Stepney and Pancras. Maybe someone from the London area could narrow it down further.
The trouble is that we don't seem to be able to trust James and Sarah to give the right ages for themselves, so should we trust those of their children?
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Looking at ALSTON in south Ribble area, ALSTEAD everywhere, HOWCROFT and MARSH in Bolton and Westhoughton, PICKERING in the Whitehaven area. Census information is Crown Copyright. See www.nationalarchives.gov.uk for details. |
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katrinamawbey
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 67
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Where were John, Betty and James in 41, 51, and 61 censuses?
Where were the children born? How do you know they had 4 children?
Do you have a birth cert. for James?
If you could post this sort of detail someone may be able to help you.
Kooky
John, Betty and James were living in Wuerdle and Wardle in the 51 and 61 census. In the 41 census it just says Rochdale which is the Registration district of the area at this time.
James was then married at some point between 1861 and 1871 i believe in scotland because of the p.o.b of the eldest son, John H Smith being scotland. As seen in the 1871 census. I was under the impression it was highly unlikely that people who were expecting did not get married. John H Smith was 12 years old in the 1871 census. I am presuming they have 4 children based upon the 1871 census of this family showing 4 children. And no i do not have a birth certificate for James.
I have not been able to find them in the 1881 census or 1891 census. So i dont know whether Johns age is correct or not.
James SMITH (coal miner), son of John and Betty, was living at home unmarried in 1861; he cannot therefore be the father of John H SMITH born c1858. There is quite a gap between the first 2 children and the last 2, so they may possibly be from 2 separate marriages. Have you found any of the family in later censuses? I can't see them at the moment.... Rambler
Indeed, but as i said in my reply to Kooky, i havent been able to find John H Smith later on in the census... so i cannot tell his real age. It has been suggested to me that Sarah might have passed away in a smallpox epidemic whilst they were living on the miner's camp in Settle. I have been told that there is a memorative plaque in a church dedicated to miners and their families who died during the building of the Settle to Carlisle (?) railway. But that there are no descriptions as to whom passed away.
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katrinamawbey
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 67
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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James did get around a bit, didn't he?
"Charlot" would be the easiest to trace. Her birth cert would give Sarah's maiden name. With that we stand a good chance of finding the marriage, and hence John's father.
What a pity the enumerator didn't give us a clue what the town was.
There are only a few Charlotte Smiths born in Derbyshire in the right period. I think it might be worth a few quid on the birth cert for the girl born Q1 of 1867 in Chesterfield district. You can always cut the cost of failure by asking for the parents' names to be checked.
But I've just found what looks very much like them in 1861.
RG9/196 ed8 fol125 p28
7 Hamilton Rd Pentonville.
James Smith, Head, Mar, 26, Refiner?, Lancashire
Sarah do, wife, mar, 29, , Shropshire
John do, son, , 2, , Abbesfield (or Abberfield) Scotland
John's place of birth is not familiar to me, but I'm no scotsman.
Note that James junior is not at home, which probably means he was due to make his arrival, since he's down as 10 in 1871. So, he ought to be registered in Q2 of 1861. There are 5 James Smiths registered that quarter in the whole of Middlesex. The two most likely are the ones at Stepney and Pancras. Maybe someone from the London area could narrow it down further.
The trouble is that we don't seem to be able to trust James and Sarah to give the right ages for themselves, so should we trust those of their children?
Interesting!!! This certainly throws a spanner in the works lol as that would mean James parents are incorrect then. They just had to be smiths lol!!!
Thanks Andrew, this would also put them in the right place for James (their son) to be born in middle sex. Back to the drawing board i suppose...
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