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Topic: Westwater's of Fife. (Read 2063 times)
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patches71
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Posts: 13
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Hello, I'm new to this list and couldn't resist replying to Tom's excellent summarising about the WESTWATERS'.
I have been researching my wife's family, yes she is a WESTWATER, for a few years now and start from the marriage of David WESTWATER to Janet DUNCAN for a couple of generations. I would be obliged if anyone spots any mistakes to inform me of it.
David and Janet's children -
Robert b 1780, Abottshall
George b 1784, Abottshall
David b 1787, Abotshall
John b 1789, Dysart
Janet b 1791, Dysart
James b 1793, Dysart m Agnes Ann Henderson, 1818, Kirkcaldy
Isabel b 1796, Dysart
Betty b 1797, Dysart
George b 1791, Dysart d 1867, Markinch
David b 1802, Dysart d 1862, Dysart
Robert married Ann FORGAN, she was the daughter of Thomas FORGAN and Elizabeth NICHOLSON. this family can be traced to the famous golf club makers of St Andrews, also to William FORGAN-SMITH, Premier of Queensland in the 1930's
George married Margaret KNOWLES, 1821, Dysart, daughter of George KNOWLES and Catherine LOUDEN. Margaret died 1865, Dysart.
David married Elizabeth WOOD, daughter of Alexander WOOD and Mary  . Elizabeth died 1886, Dysart. Even though David and Elizabeth were born and died locally most of their children were born in England and Ireland. David spent 14 years in the Royal Artillery.
Further generations to the above include names like SHERRIFF, MORRISON, DAVIES, KENNEDY, SMITH
If anyone would like more information, please ask.
John
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tommacgregor
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Hello All,
I'm returning to this thread on the Westwater's at the request of several people who appeared to be well pleased with the great amount of information that I was able to give on this family. May I say how pleased I am that I have been able to be of some assistance to them. I had to smile when I read some of the requests, since several of them were asking about a specific Westwater - Balfour Westwater. Well, I'll do my very best to give you the information that you need.
Balfour WESTWATER married Christian LISTER on the 27th of November, 1808 at Wemyys, on the shores of the Firth of Forth in Fife.
Their children:
Balfour Westwater born 27th June, 1810 at Wemyss in Fife.
Ann Westwater born 11th November, 1812 at Wemyss in Fife.
James Westwater born 20th October, 1813 at Wemyss in Fife.
Archibald Neilson Drummond Westwater born 2nd December, 1816 at Wemyss. I believe that he went on to marry Ann BAIRD on the 22nd April, 1839 at Wemyss.
I bet that quite a lot of you who enjoy the "naming pattern" custom of us Scots should have some fun with Archibald Nielson Drummon Westwater!
Just as a gentle reminder. the first son was generally named after the paternal Grandfather, so, Balfour born in June had a father named Balfour as well as a grandfather with the same name.
The next child, Ann Westwater could have been named after the maternal or paternal grandmother.
The second eldest son, James Westwater was usually named after the maternal father - that would be Christian Lister's father.
The third son, Archibald seems to have broken with tradition, but we have to remember that there could be a missing child in my list of children. Further, there was already a child named Balfour, after his Grandfather, so it wouldn't have been possible to name another of the sons after his father, Balfour. What is likely that he would have been named after his father's oldest brother.
All of that doesn't sound too bad after you're second wee glass of Drambuie! 
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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tommacgregor
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Hello Again,
In my previous posting I mentioned Balfour Westwater who had been born on the 27th of June, 1810 at Wemyss in Fife. So, what happened to him?
Balfour Westwater married Helen Simpson on the 12th of January, 1835 at Wemyss.
Children:
Euphemia Westwater chr. 26th July, 1835 at Wemyss in Fife.
Balfour Westwater born 20th December, 1836 at Scoonie, which is just outside Leven and not too far away from Wemyss.
James Westwater born 18th August, 1839 at Scoonie in Fife.
David Westwater born 20th September, 1841 at Scoonie in Fife.
It would appear that the first Balfour died because now we have:Balfour Westwater born 11th October, 1844 at Scoonie in Fife.
Christina Westwater born 1849 at Ferry Port on Craig, Fife.
Well, that's it for today. Time for a nice cup of tea and a look at the TV before I go to bed.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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tommacgregor
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Hello All,
I will continue with the work that I have been doing on the Westwater family, but bring it forward it time just a bit since a few of you out there are still experiencing difficulties in connecting various individuals. As well as giving you the required information, I shall be pointing to some little details that I often mention in my postings and that includes the importance of a Middle Name as well as "naming patterns". As I have been careful to point out, these things are NOT entirely infallible, but, I have to say, they have pulled me out of a few scrapes over quite a long period of time.
I will introduce you to Alexander WESTWATER who married a certain Elizabeth (Betty) TRAIL and point out a few important steps that I took whilst researching this particular WESTWATER family. Let's take a look at their children:
Alexander Westwater born 29th of May, 1829 at Kilconquhar, which is situated roughly 8 miles to the west of Anstruther in Fife. I want you to carefully note this location because time and time again, you will see me referring to it as the birthplace of various members of the WESTWATER family, and so it tends to assist me in pinpointing the person that I'm searching for.
Alexander married a young lady named Margaret HUTTON who was about 5 years younger, and had been born at Dunfermline in Fife.
Their children:
Mary WESTWATER born 17th July, 1853 at Dunfermline.
Elizabeth WESTWATER born 18th March, 1855 at Auchterderran in Fife.
Alexander WESTWATER born 4th March, 1857 at Auchterderran in Fife. It would appear that he had been named after his paternal Grandfather, Alexander WESTWATER, the husband of Betty TRAIL.
Robert HUTTON WESTWATER born 26th July, 1859 at Auchterderran in Fife. Other researchers of this family may care to do a search for the Robert HUTTON that he was named after.
Betsy TRAIL WESTWATER born 1st June, 1862 at Auchterderran. Could it be that Elizabeth, who had been born in March 1855 had died, and so Alexander and Margaret had made the decision to carry on the name of Elizabeth (Betty) Trail?
Ann SPENCE WESTWATER born 7th April, 1868 at Auchterderran in Fife.
Helen ROBERTSON WESTWATER born 7th June, 1869 at Auchterderran in Fife.
For researchers seeking a connection between the WESTWATER's and the HUTTON's, TRAIL's and ROBERTSON's - here's your big opportunity!
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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tommacgregor
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Hello All,
Another son of Alexander WESTWATER and Betty TRAIL was William WESTWATER, born 15th July, 1823 at Kilconquhar in Fife. He went on to marry Margaret STEVENSON who had been born at St Ninians in Stirlingshire.
Instead of giving you the bare details of the family, I'm going to step forward to the year 1871 to see where the family was living.
William Westwater was now aged about 47 and his wife, Margaret was about 48.
Their eldest son, Alexander WESTWATER who was born on 7th December, 1846 does not appear on the Census. If he was still alive, then he would have been about 25 years of age, and presumably married.
The family was living at 16 Station Row, Auchterderran , and the following children were there at the time of the Census:
James WESTWATER born 16th July, 1858 at Auchterderran.
William WESTWATER born 6th February, 1861 at Auchterderran.
Robert WESTWATER born 29th July, 1863 at Auchterderran.
Isabella WESTWATER born 10th September, at Auchterderran.
Because of the gap between the birth of Alexander in 1846 and the birth of James in July 1858, I would think that there are quite a few children who may have married, or were simply not at Station Row at the time of the Census. Other researchers of this family may care to do a Parent/Children search.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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tommacgregor
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Hello All,
In this posting, I'm going to show you again what a difference the insertion of the Middle Name of a child makes when researching a family. We will look at yet another child of Alexander WESTWATER and Betty TRAIL - JAMES STEWART WESTWATER, who married Margaret DANKS. James had been born on the 28th of May, 1830 at Kilconquhar in Fife, and his wife, Margaret had been born at Dunfermline.
At the time of the 1871 Census, the family were living at Francis Street, Auchterderran. James was now about 40 years of age and his wife, Margaret about 36.
Their children:
Alexander WESTWATER born 23rd March, 1857 at Auchterderran in Fife. Again, I would think that he had been named after the paternal Grandfather, Alexander WESTWATER, the husband of Betty TRAIL.
Elizabeth TRAIL WESTWATER born 27th April, 1859 at Auchterderran in Fife. I would think that she had been named after the paternal Grandmother, Elizabeth (Betty) TRAIL.
Thomas DANKS WESTWATER born 3rd July, 1861 at Dunfermline in Fife. I haven't had time to check, but I would think that he would have been named after the father of Margaret DANKS. Let me know if I'm correct or not.
James STEWART WESTWATER born 28th 1863 at Auchterderran in Fife. Note that he shares the same Middle Name as his father. Would he have been named after his father's eldest brother? Again let me know if I'm correct or not.
Isabella WESTWATER born 16th September, 1865 at Auchterderran in Fife.
Robert WESTWATER born 5th September. 1867 at Auchterderran.
Francis DANKS Westwater born in 1870. Was he named after the brother of his mother, Margaret Danks?
Now, I feel sure that you can see how I normally work. It's quite a time-consuming job, but I believe that it's quite worthwhile. I would like you to experiment with this work that I'm doing, and don't be afraid to make a posting if you're a newcomer to RootsChat. Personally, I think that it's good to work away knowing that you've got a lot of friends on the site who would be delighted to see you having a go.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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tommacgregor
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Hello All,
In my previous postings, I covered quite a bit of ground with the children of Alexander WESTWATER and Elizabeth (Betsy or Betty) TRAIL. Well, you know me by now - I just love to know what happened to members of the family, and so continue to dig out further information..
I have come across quite an interesting snippet of information, and wonder if any of you kind souls out there can put the finishing touches to it. I was looking at my old stamping ground of Auchterderran, where I spent my early childhood, and specifically, Knockhill. It told me that John WESTWATER was unmarried and was aged 36. His occupation was that of Bookseller. Staying with him at the time was his mother, Betsy, who was aged 78 and she had been born at Kilconquhar.
That seems to be a pretty good fit for our Elizabeth (Betsy or Betty) TRAIL who was married to Alexander WESTWATER since she did indeed give birth to a John WESTWATER on 22nd of June, 1833 at Kilconquhar. Once again, little bits of the jigsaw puzzle appear to be falling into place but, I would love to know what happened to Betsy and her son. How about you?
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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tommacgregor
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Hello All,
Well, it looks as if poor old Betsy died within a fairly short time, because, I find that that her son didn't stay "on the shelf" much longer. He married a lady by the name of Elizabeth, (I haven't got her surname yet!).
At the time of the 1881 Census they were living at 13 Bank Street, Auhterderran where John is shown as now aged 46, and his birthplace is given correctly as Kilconquhar. His occupation is described as Printer & Bookseller. Elizabeth's age is given as 38.
Their children:
Alexander WESTWATER aged 5 and born at Auchterderran.
Lizzie WESTWATER aged 3 and also born at Auchterderran.
It would appear that the good old Scot's tradition of naming patterns was being adhered to, i.e. Alexander, named after his Grandfather and Lizzie (Elizabeth - Betty - Betsy) named after her Grandmother, Betsy TRAIL.
Isn't it nice when those missing bits are inserted into your Family Tree?
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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tommacgregor
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Hello All,
Having mentioned Elizabeth (Betsy) Trail on previous postings, I thought that you would like to see a connection to the MELDRUM family.
David TRAIL married Ann MELDRUM on the 27th October, 1827 at Scoonie in Fife.
Their children were:
Agnes SWAN TRAIL born 27th August, 1828 at Scoonie in Fife.
James TRAIL born 5th November, 1831 at Scoonie in Fife.
Elizabeth TRAIL born 12th January, 1836 at Scoonie in Fife She went on to marry William COWAN at Scoonie in the year 1858
Andrew MELDRUM TRAIL born 22nd August, 1839 at Scoonie in Fife.
Grace TRAIL born 22nd July, 1841 at Scoonie in Fife.
I would hope that the above information is of assistance to researchers of the TRAIL and MELDRUM families.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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tommacgregor
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1248
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello All,
As a way of trying to help those who are new to Family History, I made a few comments on a recent posting of mine how I tend to use even the most sparse information to achieve more information about specific individuals.
Let me give you another example of how I go about extracting that valuable information.
On the 1871 Census, I found George WESTWATER who was born on 11th October, 1820 at Kilconquhar. With him was his wife, Helen Westwater, Maiden Surname ROBERTSON, and their daughter Helen aged about 15 and son, George, aged about 12.
I then had a look at the 1881 Census for the same area, AUCHTERDERRAN in Fife, and noted that George and Helen were now living at 11 Bank Street, Auchterderran. I now found that George was aged about 60 and his wife, Helen was about 61. George Junior was now aged about 22 and he was described as being a druggist employing one boy. His sister, Helen was now aged about 23.
I decided to have a look at the neighbours of this family and randomly selected a David Reid. The reason I chose David Reid was that my Great-Grandmother was a REID. I found:
David REID aged about 35 and he was born at Burntisland in Fife.
Helen REID aged about 35 who had been born at Auchterderran.
Jessie REID their daughter aged about 6, born at Auchterderran.
Walter REID their son, aged about 4 months and a Lodger by the name of James HUNTER aged about 27.
I managed to ascertain that David Reid's wife was actually Helen Hunter who had been born on 14th March, 1847 at Auchterderran to John Hunter and Isabella Thomson. David and Helen's eldest child was Isabella REID, who had been born on the 16th June, 1869 at Auchterderran and their other daughter, Jessie had been born on 4th August, 1874 at Auchterderran.
I think its comforting to note that the eldest girl had been christened Isabella. Had the old Scot's naming pattern custom been used? After all, her Grandmother was Isabella Thomson the wife of John Hunter.
Oh, by the way, was the lodger, James Hunter related to David Hunter's wife, Helen Hunter?
Now you can see what I'm doing. Ask yourself questions and search for the answers based on the initial raw material. I think that I've given you an insight into the way that I work. I'm certainly not claiming to be some kind of expert in the field of Genealogy - I'm not. All that I'm doing is passing on to you a few little tips that you may care to utilise.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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tommacgregor
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Hello All,
To continue with my efforts to utilise sparse information and turn it into a substantial source of information.
Whilst searching for some details about my Great-Grandfather, Samuel Livingstone, I learned that at the time of the 1881 Census he was staying with his sisters, Janet and Maggie Livingstone at No. 64 Woodhead Street in Dunfermline. Now, knowing the connection with Dunfermline and the Livingstone's and the area around Pittencrieff Street, Dunfermline with Samuel, Janet and Maggie's cousin, John BEWICK, I decided to "stickybeak" around the neighbours to see if I could find anything.
BINGO! Living just a few doors away at No. 74 Woodhead Street, Dunfermline, I found a Thomas TRAIL living with his family. It didn't take me long to discover that his wife, shown as Catherine TRAIL had been christened Catherine PETRIE and that she had been born in the Leven/Scoonie area of Fife. Now isn't that quite "a coincidence" after reading my previous postings.
Another "coincidence" is that Thomas and Catherine's daughter, Helen TRAIL, had been christened in May 1852 at North Church, Dunfermline. My "elusive" ancestor, James Livingstone had been married in May, the previous year at the self-same church in Dunfermline. What a small world it is, eh?
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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tommacgregor
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Hello All,
I read with great interest the various postings about precise locations in Fife, and the difficulty that many people from countries outside Scotland experience when trying to discover where there ancestors actually lived. As always, I'm quite happy to throw in a little bit of extra information to help you out.
In a number of my postings, I have mentioned that I lived with my family at Easter Lathrisk Farm at the end of World War II, and those were some of the happiest years of my life. Now, Lathrisk, is quite an unusual name and I'm rather surprised that nobody has bothered to ask me where it came from.
Most people who know me, know of my great love of history - especially about my homeland, and Fife in particular. In recent postings I have written about the Westwaters and their connection to the TRAIL family, and how the area that I write about invariably is around Dunfermline, Auchterderran, Scoonie, Leven and Kettle. Here is where we find the meaning of Lathrisk, because, it was the ancient name for the Parish of Kettle.
The village of Kettle was situated about half a mile away from Balmalcolm and bounded by Ceres, Collessie, Markinch and Falkland. (I have given all of these places as birthplaces of many of my ancestors). The River Eden which formed the northern boundary of Easter Lathrisk Farm traced the western half of the northern boundary of Kettle.
As I continue with my postings, you will find that I mention that a James TRAIL married an Elizabeth DOWIE at KETTLE on the 3rd of December, 1790. For those other researchers out there on RootsChat, you will begin to see how the various families in this region mingled and then "migrated" to places further afield.
I hope that I have not detracted you from your genealogy search with this wee snippet of information, but it should stop any weird and wonderful theories about the location of where our ancestors, met, married and raised their families.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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tommacgregor
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Hello Again,
Now let me continue with my brief story about the TRAILS.
James TRAIL married Elizabeth DOWIE on the 3rd December, 1790 at KETTLE in Fife.
Their children were:
Isobel TRAIL born 11th October, 1791 at Scoonie (Leven) on the shores of the Firth of Forth.
James TRAIL born 25th April, 1794 at Scoonie in Fife.
Elizabeth TRAIL born 25th December, 1795 at Leven in Fife.
David TRAIL born 8th September, 1798 at Scoonie in Fife.
Thomas TRAIL born 2nd August, 1800 at Scoonie in Fife.
What other researchers should now be asking themselves is, was the above David TRAIL, born in September, 1798 at Scoonie, the young man who married Ann MELDRUM at Scoonie on the 27th October, 1827? Did their daughter, Elizabeth TRAIL born on the 12th January, 1836 at Scoonie marry William COWAN at Scoonie in 1858? Was their grandson, Henry COWAN born in 1859 and then the family moved south to Suffolk in England?
I could, of course, do further work on this, but would prefer to see you practicing your skills. Again, don't forget the little tips that I try to give you on my postings about specific locations, specific dates and "naming patterns". Without putting words into your mouths, look at the eldest daughter of David TRAIL and Ann MELDRUM. She was named Agnes. Does that point the way to her Grandmother? Well, I certainly know of an Agnes Lindsay who married a Thomas TRAIL back on 3rd January, 1772 at KETTLE. However, if the "naming patterns" were being adhered to, where was the name Thomas introduced? Is there a missing name on the list of the children born to James TRAIL and Elizabeth Dowie? Indeed, I see a few gaps on that list, and ask myself was there a Thomas TRAIL born a year or so after Agnes, and then how about the gap between 1831 and 1836?
I look forward to hearing about your work on this branch of the family.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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tommacgregor
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Hello All,
To bring you up to date with yet another descendant of Alexander WESTWATER and Betty TRAIL.
David FISHER married Margaret DALRYMPLE on the 13th February, 1860 at Auchterderran in Fife. (I really should mention that this an Extracted marriage record).
Their children:
David FISHER born 10th April, 1860 at Auchterderran in Fife.
Euphemia FISHER born 2nd March, 1862 at Auchterderran in Fife.
Euphemia went on to marry James WESTWATER, the son of Alexander WESTWATER and Betty TRAIL on January 1st., 1884 at 28 Station Head, Auchterderran in Fife.
The 1901 Census dated 31st March, shows the couple living at 53 and 55 Broad Street, Cowdenbeath which covered James WESTWATER's shop and home.
Children:
William WESTWATER was born before 20th August, 1884. He went on to marry Jane CAMPBELL on the 20th August, 1915 at 24 New Row, Dunfermline in Fife.
On 23rd October, 1889, James WESTWATER was born and he died on 15th July, 1970 at West Fife Hospital in Dunfermline.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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pauldanks
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I read wish interest the posting regarding the Westwaters of Fife on 7th June 2008.
The Margaret Danks mentioned as the husband of James Westwater was in fact the sister of my great-grandfather Francis Danks.
It stated that Margaret's father was Thomas but my records show he was John Danks.
In which month of 1863 was James Westwater born?
What was the date of birth in 1870 of Francis Danks Westwater?
I would appreciate contact with anyone who has information about this family or the Danks family.
Regards
Paul Danks
Newcastle, Australia
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