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Topic: changing surname (Read 780 times)

Helen1955
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

changing surname
« on: Saturday 10 May 08 07:51 BST (UK) »

The family story is that ..........

Maria had several children by John Charles before they married in 1886. All boys they were registered with Maria's maiden name, Croxall. When she married John Charles they appear to have taken his surname, Cross (as per 1891 and 1901 census) and at least 2 of the boys used Cross as their surname when they married.

My queries are these .......

Today, in the same circumstances, I am sure that some legal process would have to be gone through to change a childs surname. Was this the case in the 1880's?

If there would have been a legal process, can I access those records and where?

Did they have to produce a birth certificate when they married (early 1900's)?

Oh, and Maria and John Charles appear to have had a boy, Walter born the same year they got married but I can't find his birth registered (at the moment). Do you think they forgot to register him in the excitement of getting married?

Thanks for reading this
Helen


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Crow - Redditch/Tardebigge Worcs
Cross - Redditch/Ipsley Worcs and Winsham, Somerset.
Croxall - Redditch/Walton-on-Trent, Staffordshire/Derbyshire
Walford - Norton juxta Kempsey, Worcs
Johnson - Redditch Worcs
Smith - Oxfordshire/Studley Warks
Woodyatt - Hereford/Gloucester/Birmingham
Porter - Birmingham

MarieC
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In Queensland, Oz

Re: changing surname
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 10 May 08 11:15 BST (UK) »

Hi Helen

From other posts on here, I have gathered that you could change your name if you wished, without going through a formal process. I am not sure where you would find the records if they HAD gone through a formal process.

I also believe that by 1886 there were significant penalties for not registering a birth. So I am not sure why you couldn't find the registration.

Sorry I'm not more help. Hopefully someone with more info will post.

MarieC


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Martins in London and Wales, Lockwoods in Yorkshire, Hartleys in London, Lichfield and Brighton, Hubands and Smiths in Ireland, Bentleys in London and Yorkshire, Denhams in Somerset, Scoles in London, Meyers in London, Cooks in Northumberland

trish251
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Re: changing surname
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 10 May 08 12:52 BST (UK) »

There is a birth in Walsall Staffordshire for a Walter Edward Croxall Dec 1885 - is this a possible for your Walter - it fits the age on the 1891 census and is before the marriage

Trish


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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

stanmapstone
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My answers only refer to England and Wales

Re: changing surname
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 10 May 08 15:39 BST (UK) »

Under English common law, a person may take a new surname, perfectly legally, without drawing up any formal record, provided that such action is not undertaken for the purpose of fraud of avoidance of obligation, etc. Various means of recording a change of name have been developed over time, but most of them were voluntary, and it is impossible to say what percentage of name-changers used them. Many people who changed their name did not wish to draw attention to the fact. For example, in an age of difficult divorce, some people took their new partner's name to allow them the appearance of marriage, and any children the appearance of legitimacy. From the number of enquiries The National Archives gets, it is clear that very often a proof of change of name either never existed or no longer exists.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=176

Unless the bride or groom appeared to be under the age of consent they were not asked for proof of their age or identity. That is what banns are meant to be for. Banns are a public announcement of a couple's intention to marry and gives an opportunity for anyone knowing any just reason or due cause why they should not be married to forbid the banns i.e. object to the proposed marriage.

Stan


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Mapstone, Mapston. Sunderland, Somerset

stanmapstone
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My answers only refer to England and Wales

Re: changing surname
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 10 May 08 15:44 BST (UK) »

Quote from: MarieC on Saturday 10 May 08 11:15 BST (UK)

Hi Helen

I also believe that by 1886 there were significant penalties for not registering a birth.

MarieC

The Births and Deaths Registration Act of 1874 made such failure punishable by a fine of £2.00.

Stan


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Mapstone, Mapston. Sunderland, Somerset

MarieC
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In Queensland, Oz

Re: changing surname
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 11 May 08 10:07 BST (UK) »

Thanks Stan! I hoped you would come through with the facts, and will take note of them. You should be declared a Rootschat living treasure!

MarieC


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Helen1955
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Re: changing surname
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 11 May 08 17:37 BST (UK) »

Well thank you all for your help and advise, especially Stan.

I have sent for the birth Cert for Walter Edward Croxall born Walsall 1885 although I don't think it is the right one if only because all the other children were born Redditch and registered in Bromsgrove.

As for penalties for not registering a birth, at least 2 of my ancestors were registered but incorrectly, my Nan always celebrated both of her birthdays, the day she was born on and the date her birth certificate says she was born on. Her father lied 'cos he was several days out side the cut off period but it always amused Nan who said it made her like the Queen!

My other Nan has several inaccuracies on her birth cartificate due to her mother trying to cover up her illegitimacy. It took me the best part of 6 months to work that one out!

Still, its the solving of the puzzle that make Family History so much fun!

Thanks again
Helen


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Helen1955
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Re: changing surname
« Reply #7 on: Friday 16 May 08 16:11 BST (UK) »

Unfortunately I have been proved right.

The birth certificate for Walter Croxall born 1885 and registered in Walshall is not the one I was looking for.

So, if anyone has any ideas I am still searching for a Walter born abt 1886 in Redditch (registration districh Bromsgrove) who may have the surname CROXALL or CROSS depending on whether he was born before his parents married or after.

Still, all is not lost, I have been told that my Croxall's did originate in Staffordshire/Derbyshire so maybe I have a connection with the Walter who's birth certificate arrived today.

Helen


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trish251
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Re: changing surname
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 17 May 08 03:41 BST (UK) »

I do hope you find the connection - I hate someone buying a wrong certificate on my suggestion as much as I hate buying one myself. It will be so nice if/when they complete the index with all the mother's maiden names - I hope I live to see it Sad

Trish


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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Jean McGurn
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Re: changing surname
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 17 May 08 05:37 BST (UK) »

Quote

Still, all is not lost, I have been told that my Croxall's did originate in Staffordshire/Derbyshire so maybe I have a connection with the Walter who's birth certificate arrived today.

I once sent off for a birth certificate and discovered it wasn't the one I wanted. However many months later I discovered that the father of the child was indeed related to my branch.

He turned out to be a brother I never knew existed. So don't despair Helen, you may have opened a branch line.

Jean


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McGurn, Stables, Harris, Owens, Bellis, Stackhouse, Darwent, Co(o)mbe

Helen1955
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Re: changing surname
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 17 May 08 08:22 BST (UK) »

Oh Jean don't I know it!

Last year after searching for my maternal Grandmother's birth records I sent off for the only certificate that seemed to fit only to find when it arrived that all the details on it; fathers name, maiden name etc was wrong.

So, I put it away and then 8 months later, after approaching the same birth from a different angle I realised it had been my Grandmother's certificate all along. Her mother, my Great Grandmother had not been married to the man my Grandmother thought was her father when my Grandmother was born!

To cover up my Grandmother's illegitimacy her Mother had given her Fathers name instead of the real Fathers and her Mother's maiden name as her own.

In any case although £7 for a certificate is a lot of money to "waste" I feel that if it stops me wasting my valuable time researching the wrong line then it is no waste at all.

I have just realised you posted your message at 5.37am looks like you not wasting anytime sleeping!!

Helen


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angelan
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Re: changing surname
« Reply #11 on: Friday 11 July 08 21:52 BST (UK) »

Hello again Helen

Have been in touch with you before due to our shared Croxall Connection (William Croxall and Elizabeth Scattergood) Have only just come across this thread today.

I have just had a look for a birth registration for Walter but was also unable to find this. I tried Croxall and Cross which I'm sure you also tried. I know that Croxall was regularly mis-spelled.

It's possible that Walter's birth registration may have been difficult to read or transcribed incorrectly. I have had this happen before. It took me such a long time to find my grandfather's birth certificate. Eventually I found him on freebmd with the final 2 letters of his surname missing, so I assume this part of his name must have been unreadable on the original registration document.

Hope you are making progress now that you have located the correct Croxalls

Angela


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HAWKES Redditch, Worcestershire
CROXALL Redditch Worcestershire and Walton on Trent, Derbyshire
BROGAN Newbliss, County Monaghan, Ireland
McENIFF County Monaghan, Glasgow and USA
MURPHY, County Monaghan, Ireland
CRADDOCK Redditch
BRYAN Redditch
SCATTERGOOD Staffordshire and Derbyshire

Helen1955
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Re: changing surname
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 12 July 08 13:06 BST (UK) »

Hi Angela

I haven't done much family history research recently, we have been away on holiday.

I am off to Chard next weekend to do a bit on Charles Cross, father of John Charles Cross and therefore grandfather of Walter and his siblings.

Census returns indicate Charles Cross came from the Chard/Winsham area and I am trying to work out why an Ag Lab and son of a small farmer should become an engineer in Redditch.

Chard has links to early powered flight, a local landowner set up a workshop to make airplanes. It was quite important in the area so I want to access the archives and see if I can find any record of Charles.

Keep your fingers crossed, I'll let you know how I get on.

Helen


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Gatacre
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Re: changing surname
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 12 July 08 17:34 BST (UK) »

In the 1891 census of St Stephen's Parish. Redditch at
8 Prospect Road I have found the following family. I do hope this is the one you seek

Baby Cross age 1/12 Daur
John Charles Cross Head age 33 Machinist
Maria Cross Wife age 32
Henry son age 13 Scholar
Charles Edward son age 11 Scholar
Fred son age 9 Scholar
Frank son age 7 Scholar
WALTER son age 5 Scholar
Effie daur age 2

All born Redditch Worcestershire


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CLEGG,BINNS Rochdale
PATTESON-BLACKWELL Rochdale
PATTESON,SMITH Bury and Manchester
GARNER, ALLEN Manchehster/Ireland
HARTLEY, Burnley
BLACKWALL/WELL Hereford City, Herefordshire
COLLINS   Leominster, Herefordshire
ARMSTRONG   Orleton, Herefordshire
LLOYD Orleton, Herefordshire
THOMPSON   Barrow-in-Furness, Lancashire
THOMPSON   Dromara, Co. Down, N. Ireland
CAMPBELL   Dromara, Down and Co. Tyrone N Ireland
FISHER   Pennsyvania and Ohio USA
MARKS   Pennsylvania USA

Gatacre
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Re: changing surname
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 12 July 08 17:42 BST (UK) »

Sorry, I now realize that you must have the 1891 census return . I note that the father John Charles is a Machinist which is not a skilled job of work and many people changed their occupations.


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