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Topic: Henry O'Neill/O'Neil born Oldham 1883 (Read 629 times)
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emmsthheight
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 991
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi
FullBMD Images has:
Birth 1883, Oc-Dec
O'Neil, Henry, Oldham, 8d 607
Only Henry O'Neil(l).
Will check the other dates later.
Haven't checked O'Neal(l) for any of it.
Emms
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li91mo
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 24
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi again
Thanks again for all your help, you are all most helpful! I think that although he was born in Oldham, I think Bolton is the place to look for.
Yes Emms, that is the correct Birth Index for Henry, I order a copy and that is how I found out that his parents were Henry O'Neill and Elizabeth Rourke. Their marriage certificate should be on its way now. Once I get it I can check their ages against the possible census ages you have both found.
We know very little about Henry Jnr and about the children he had from his previous marriage. We know there was definitely a boy, but we think there were more. No idea of their year of birth or their names.
Henry Jnr married for a second time in 1919 in Bolton. His second wife raised the children form his first marriage, that is why I was not expecting to see him with children on the 1901 Census as they would be too old by 1919 to need to be raised by the second wife.
Do either of you know anything about searching military records? As I know he served in the Royal Engineers.
Anyway all your help is much appreciated
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emmsthheight
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 991
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi
I'm no expert, and there are great military boards on Rootschat, but he would barely have been old enough for the Boar War, and if he served in WW!, there should be a medal card for him which would give his number but iI guess there will be too many Henry O'Neals to recognise it. If We're lucky his pension records could have survived.
I'll look what's on Ancestry.
I'll get back.
Emms
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li91mo
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 24
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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The only other information I have is from Henry Jnr's marriage certificate, his address is given as Bank Street Bolton. His profession as 'Sapper 341541' and the what looks like 'R.E.' (assume Royal Engineers) then two illegible words and then 'machinist'.
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emmsthheight
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 991
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi
I've looked on the medal cards and there is one for what looks like Henry in the Royal Engineers, but it will only give what you already have.
I've had a look at the service records but only a small proportion survive and they atre not all on line yet.
There is a Henry who was born in Oldham and enlisted in Bolton but not in the RE and not with this number. A relative?
I'll have another look and get back to you and pm any relevent information.
As you know the regiment, you might get a lot of help off the military boards, from someone who knows what there is of the engineers records and where it is.
Best wsihes
Emms
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emmsthheight
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 991
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi
I'm not sure if the medal cards on Ancestry are completed but the number doesn't correspond with yours. Some people had more than one number, but I'll check on the National Archives.
Emms
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li91mo
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 24
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I have put a post up on the military boards and they are helping me explore his military side.
Been looking at the freeBMD site.
There are two possible marriages which could be Henry Jnr's first marriage:
Marriages Dec 1898 (>99%)
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HARTIKEN Ellen Bolton 8c 649
MCGRATH Patrick Bolton 8c 649
O'Neil Henry Bolton 8c 649
Sumner Elizabeth Bolton 8c 649
This one seems a bit too early.
Marriages Jun 1905
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O'Neill Henry Bolton 8c 682
O'Rourke Mary Bolton 8c 682
WALSH Robert Bolton 8c 682
Willis Mary Ellen Bolton 8c 682
This one seems more possible, especially as I have also found the following information.
Deaths Dec 1918 (>99%)
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O'NEILL Mary E 33 Bolton 8c 715 (born approx 1885)
Births Dec 1911 (>99%)
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O'Neill Lily Willis Bolton 8c 825
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Births Mar 1914 (>99%)
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O'NEILL Edward Willis Bolton 8c 876
So that would fit as we know his first wife died and his second wife raised his children from that marriage (the youngest would have been 5 at the time). But it really is just guest work. Can anyone think of a way of checking without having to order the certificate?
Also someone previously mentioned the Boer war. I think he would have been around 18 at the time of the second war, and I cannot help thinking this might be a link to his second wife's as her father died in the Boer war in 1902 and was a sargeant in the Royal Engineers....
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li91mo
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 24
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I have finally got the copies of the marriage certificate for Henry O'NEILL (snr) and Elizabeth Rourke.
They were married at St Patrick Catholic Church in Bolton in July 1880. Henry was aged 34 (approx 1846) and a labourer living at what looks like 28 Back Soho(?) Street, Great Bolton. His father is given as John O'NEILL (deceased), labourer.
Elizabeth was 31 (approx 1849) living at 36 Back D? Street, Great Bolton (it could be Dawes, which would match a census but it is hard to read). Her father was Thomas ROURKE (deceased) a labourer.
The witnesses were Patrick O'NEILL and what looks like an Ann REDDY or KEDDY.
Will have a look at the information you have all given me and see if it matches.
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emmsthheight
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 991
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi
Thanksfor the feedback. I'm glad you're moving on.
Emms
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li91mo
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 24
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Heywood
Thanks again for your help. I do think that the Wallace family is related. I think there is a mistake with Henry's age somewhere as I do think this is him on the 1881 census, because of the Ann Reddy link.
Been searching on Freebmd for this family. I think Alice Wallace was previously Alice Egan and married Patrick Wallace in Bolton in the 3rd quarter of 1861. Also found records for their children. Alice and Elizabeth are on the 1881 Census, joined with another child Mary (Class: RG11; Piece: 3846; Folio: 127; Page: 17). Still no Patrick, but she is not listed as a widow. There is a Patrick wallace, born c,1840 in Ireland, married but lodging with the Gilfords and others in Bolton (Class: RG11; Piece: 3842; Folio: 74; Page: 31). This could be him. He is listed as a Hawker Trip, any idea what one of those is? Is there a Patrick mentioned on the 1851 Census? Wonder why he doesn't like with his family.
So do you think the John who is visiting, is the brother of Bridget and the father of Henry Snr, making him also the son of John (Bridget's father!), if so why would he be listed as a visitor and not son? Could you tell me their ages and places of births. I will buy some credits as soon as I am not so busy at work, and know I will get some time to do some research.
John (Henry snr's father) was dead by 1880, does this fit in with the censuses?
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