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Author Topic: GERMANY: Looking for the birth of my German ancestor  (Read 229 times)
Tsu
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Ellen Rondeau 1885-1960


GERMANY: Looking for the birth of my German ancestor
« on: Monday 12 May 08 11:32 BST (UK) »

Back in 1830, my g,g,g,g,grandfather Freidrich HAPPE or HOPPE married Sarah WARD at St. George's in the East in London.  He was a sugar boiler who lived in Germantown (Denmark Street and surrounding streets in Wapping).

From his death certificate I worked out that he was born in about 1804 and from census entries, he was born in Kassel in Germany.

How would I go about finding out when/where he arrived in the UK?  Or even details of his birth?

Would it have been likely that he came over as a child, or with siblings?

I'm at a bit of a loss on how to start really, and most of the German sites I have seen seem hard to work out and get information from.

What should I do first?
« Last Edit: Monday 12 May 08 12:00 BST (UK) by Berlin-Bob » Logged

East London Happe Hoppe Stanley Rondeau Jones Wood McDermott
Berlin-Bob
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Re: GERMANY: Looking for the birth of my German ancestor
« Reply #1 on: Monday 12 May 08 12:00 BST (UK) »

Hi Tsu,

have you looked on the sugar bakers site yet/already ?
www.mawer.clara.net/history.html :

there are several HOPPE and HOPPER there who could be relatives.
or this one, might even be him:
HOPPER, Frederick, from Germany, age 48,  11 Denmark St, 1851 census HO107 /1547 /54

Was he naturalised ?
the TNA might have records,
Topic: RootsChat Topics - Naturalisation and Internment
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,157691.0.html

There is not as much stuff online in Germany as there is for many english mother-tongue countries, you need more details of "where" as you then have to write to the local registry office or, in this case, church (organisation) for more details. (a bit like Ireland  Sad )

good luck,
Bob
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Searching for Coleman, Moore, Kallnung in London; Margulies, Remenyi in E. Europe;
Ancestors of Hessie Stevenson-Coleman-Baxter (Ireland, 1861)
and, of course, any other ancestors for my web-site http://boco.rootschat.net

All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)
Berlin-Bob
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Re: GERMANY: Looking for the birth of my German ancestor
« Reply #2 on: Monday 12 May 08 12:06 BST (UK) »

Do you have him in any censuses ??

We may be able to track him further through siblings birth places, or even through neighbouring families
(Germantown suggest immigrants sticking together)

Bob
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Searching for Coleman, Moore, Kallnung in London; Margulies, Remenyi in E. Europe;
Ancestors of Hessie Stevenson-Coleman-Baxter (Ireland, 1861)
and, of course, any other ancestors for my web-site http://boco.rootschat.net

All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)
Rena
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Re: GERMANY: Looking for the birth of my German ancestor
« Reply #3 on: Monday 12 May 08 12:11 BST (UK) »

Kassel is in Hessen district of Germany and you should join the rootsweb mailing list to advance your search.

http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/DEU/HESSE.html

I doubt you would find a passenger list because none were kept for more than 10 years.

I have looked on the UK National Archive site in the WO (War Office) section to see if your ancestor fought in one of the German regiments and have also looked in the HO Section (Home Office) to see if he requested British citizenship.   Unfortunately altho there are the 2 surnames, none of the entries are of your ancestor but who knows, they could be relatives.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/default.asp?j=1

I have also looked in the Library Section of familysearch to see if they have a film of baptisms in Kassel but unfortunately your timespan isn't included.   If you know his FULL names you may be lucky enough to find his baptism in Germany on this website http://www.familysearch.org/
Rena
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Tsu
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Ellen Rondeau 1885-1960


Re: GERMANY: Looking for the birth of my German ancestor
« Reply #4 on: Monday 12 May 08 13:19 BST (UK) »

He's in the 1841 census at Spencer Street, listed as Frederick Hoppe aged 36.
HO107 Piece 697 Book 3/35 Page 16

1851 as Frederic Hoppe (don't currently have access to 1851 so no reference I'm afraid)

1861 is listed as Happer 12 Denmark Street
GR09 Piece 275 Folio 41 Page 23

He dies in 1868 aged 64.
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East London Happe Hoppe Stanley Rondeau Jones Wood McDermott
JustinL
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Re: GERMANY: Looking for the birth of my German ancestor
« Reply #5 on: Monday 12 May 08 14:09 BST (UK) »

I see that his birthplace was recorded as Hessen-Cassel in the 1861 census.

This most likely refers to the territory (landgraviate, electorate, grand-duchy) rather than the town itself.

Do you have any records that state he was born in the town of Kassel?

Justin
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Tsu
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Ellen Rondeau 1885-1960


Re: GERMANY: Looking for the birth of my German ancestor
« Reply #6 on: Monday 12 May 08 15:06 BST (UK) »

Unfortunately, all I have is the census records.  I haven't even seen his marriage entry.

I've a feeling that he was a HOPPE, but one of his two sons took the name HOPPE and the other HAPPE and HAPPE is what I became.  I suspect it might have been because Hoppe is pronounced "Hopper" in German.  That would explain why they appear as "Happer" on one census.

His wife was born in Ipswich, and I wondered if he met her there, but probably not because if he had, he would have married her there, wouldn't he?  I don't think he would have brought her to London to marry her, I expect her father might have had something to say about it....

Because Sarah Ward is a relatively common name, I can't find her birth either.
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East London Happe Hoppe Stanley Rondeau Jones Wood McDermott
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