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Topic: Errors that breed......... (Read 357 times)
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keebleancestors
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 176
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I don't know where else to post this but it's on my mind. I was transferring some of my husband's stuff to yet another database yesterday, and arrived at his longest line. It's one of those (initially) posh lines that has been researched "professionally" and half the county (Kent) come from, you know the ones. It goes back to the 14th century.
The problem here is that somewhere in its proliferation around the internet a rather glaring error crept in. The first man in the line, Richard Kingsnorth, somehow got credited with a lifespan of 112 years. Because that is theoretically humanly possible (but extraordinarily unlikely in those days) I assume the software this first found itself on didn't pop up a query.
Anyone who looks carefully can see that his son has the same first name and the same date of death. I think we can all see what happened.
The trouble is that the error has proliferated. Everywhere you go online and see this man's entry his dates are given as 1382-1494. Nobody has checked it, corrected it, or made any note at all.
Inevitably it has arrived on Ancestry's One World Tree. Another error to add to that ridiculously error-ridden database. I'm sure it's on all the other similarly created databases that collate submitted entries.
I suppose it doesn't really matter in the great scheme of things, but if all research became that slapdash it would make a complete mockery of genealogy.
I actually spoke to Ancestry about this once. They phoned me to remind me that my annual subscription was due, and asked me for my opinion on their service. Usually they just help themselves from my credit card, so this was nice.
The minion who'd been assigned to survey my opinion obviously didn't know much about UK genealogy, frankly. When I suggested that Ancestry offer Parish Records he told me that they already did. I tried explaining that but I honestly don't think he understood what I was telling him. Even when I said this would probably be the best business move they ever made he just kept repeating that it was already part of the site...I gave up on that one.
Then we moved onto the subject of really silly errors on One World Tree. People living 400 years, dying before they were born, dying twice, and in two different countries, having 3 sets of parents, and living in places like New York, Scotland. He explained patiently that these entries were collected from trees submitted by members. Yes, I knew that. I suggested some sort of quality control. "You do know that this makes your site look very foolish, word gets around. It could be affecting business?" Usually that's what makes their ears prick up.
He said it would be quite impossible for Ancestry staff to check every entry. I agree. He also said that we can submit corrections. Yes, I know, I've done it many times. I got the impression that his whole attitude was "Who cares?" as he hastily moved on the the part where I paid for another year's subscription.
I told him that would be my last year. All my lines were now pre-census and without Parish Records they didn't have much else to offer me. This seemed to shock him, but not for long. It was a bluff of course, I enjoy doing research for other people far too much to lose access to what they do have.
Really I don't know what the answer is to these proliferating errors, my only hope is that newcomers to the hobby get warned about them early on, and learn to always check everything, and that enough people make the effort to correct them when they find them.
Any thoughts?
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BettyofKent
RootsChat Veteran
 Online
Posts: 738
Ray & Frank Skinner
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I found another tree on Ancestry the other day with one of my lines on it. The older sister of one man was down as his daughter. The dates were correct, so it was clear there was a mistake. I was going to correct it, then thought "oh blast it, why should I, I've corrected so many transcription errors & I'm fed up with it all" 
I put a basic tree on the OneWorldTree section when I started my family history & I've made some good contacts from it, but the additions made by other people are a scream, with people marrying before they are born, living to impossible ages & having children at a great age, & so on. One line includes Lady Godiva, Alfred the Great & goes back to Adam & Eve!
I now know better than to use the OneWorldTree, & use the personal tree that can't be added to.
The IGI isn't much better, with people baptised before they are born etc, & one of mine apparently married three times after he died. He didn't exactly rest in peace 
Betty
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KENT: Stutely - Wittersham & Stone Padgham - Wittersham Wanstall - Northbourne Taylor - Ringwould & Ash Skinner - Deal Bushell - Walmer Cornwell - Ash, Sandwich, Wingham Dennis - Eastry & Dover Fagg - Elmstone Laurence - Northbourne & Betteshanger Relf - Kent & Sussex Also Funnell - Sussex Schloss - Nottingham & Massachusetts Cohen - Birmingham "Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov. |
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jillruss
RootsChat Aristocrat
Online
Posts: 2060
Gt Gt Grandfather Shepherd 1827-1910
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I have a branch which also seems to be connected to half of the population of Canada (slight exaggeration!! ).
To date, I've had at least 4 very pleasant emails from different Canadian women all telling me the baptism place and date of a particular common ancestor in Yorkshire back in the 1750s. Each one has exactly the same details and, when I ask them where they got the date from, none of them know!! 
Each time, I have to gently tell them that, being local, I have searched the original register for that particular parish and that the baptism did not take place there. I'm not sure if they believe me!! 
Thing is - it's an exact date , so where on earth did it come from? Chinese whispers, or what!!?
Jill
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See Surname Interests Table +
Major brickwalls:
John Frith mge to Fanny, Bucks? c 1798
Bathsheba Boothroyd bp W Yks c1802
John Bishop bp E Yks c1758
Joseph Symonds mg to Sarah, prob Berks c 1735-40
John Horwood mg to Martha, Berks c 1735-40
Sarah Sculler bp Berks area c 1675
Paul Phillips bp Berks/Bucks c 1720
William Newell bp Berks/Bucks/Oxon c 1765
Richard Troughton mg to Jane, Westmoreland c 1732
Mary Simon bp Shrops c.1795
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behindthefrogs
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 3403
EDLIN
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Much of this early information from the 16th century and earlier is based on the records of the Heralds Visitations. These weren't very interested in actual dates just in proving an ancestry. When you add actual dates from baptisms and wills to the results of the visitations then you find these huge anomolies.
Much of the information in these extended trees and also on the IGI is directly extracted from the 19th and early 20th century publications of the Heralds Visitations
What chance do we have if those living within a hundred years of the actual events couldn't get it right?
David
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Living in Berkshire. Origin Northampton & Milton Keynes DETAILS OF THE FOLLOWING NAMES CAN BE FOUND IN SURNAME INTERESTS AT FOOT OF PAGE Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Williams, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley. Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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behindthefrogs
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 3403
EDLIN
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I have a similar problem to Jill with our American cousins. There is whole dynasty who claim descent from one of the founders of Harrow school. I have a copy of his will, shows that he never married and left his fortune to his brothers and sisters.
The line that they published comes from a submission to the heralds by one of their ancestors when he was trying to lay claim to a particular coat of arms (the one in my avatar). The heralds actually rejected his claim but it didn't stop a huge USA family claiming the descent and the coat of arms.
The actual line of descent which I haven't completely proved looks much more interesting than this false one.
David
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« Last Edit: Wednesday 14 May 08 09:18 BST (UK) by behindthefrogs »
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Living in Berkshire. Origin Northampton & Milton Keynes DETAILS OF THE FOLLOWING NAMES CAN BE FOUND IN SURNAME INTERESTS AT FOOT OF PAGE Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Williams, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley. Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Rossdal3
RootsChat Veteran
Offline
Posts: 548
The 3 Lions
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Hi there I agree with all you say and I think that Ancestry need to take more responsibility to control those who seek to deliberately mislead other researchers.
I have read on other RootsChat threads that some people put false information in their trees on purpose. I've noticed a few Bradford, Florida, USA entries for some of my relatives who were born and died in Bradford Yorkshire England and very rarely went out of Bradford all their lives. I contacted Ancestry and got the "brush off". BUT just last week I got an alert for a match with my Scottish cousin's tree. Knowing she was currently researching this particular relative and had broken through one of our "brick walls", I felt confident to just merge her data. I knew it was well researched with all the correct sources. I started the merge and checked that the data on-line was correct and as only her and my tree came up to merge, I went ahead! So imagine my surprise when I checked the saved data, only to see that my current data for a Scottish address had automatically been changed to:
"20 Jun 1879
Paisley, Renfrewshire
Died: 6 Apr 1923
Street, Harford, Maryland, USA"
There was no reference to the USA in either my cousin or my tree, ours were the only trees to be merged. We would never do this deliberately to mislead others and the only explanation is a "glitch" in the Ancestry database!!! The thing is how many other people copied the incorrect data in the time it will take me to correct all the "garbage data" I now have in my tree?
regards,
Jill
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Holdsworth
Hardisty
Holmes
Craven
Gaunt
Brock
Wedgeworth
From: Bradford, Pudsey, Idle, Calverley & Norfolk
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