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Topic: Elizabeth GRAVES (Read 196 times)
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EddieW
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Could someone tell me please if there was ever a marriage of Elizabeth Graves and John Williams in Cornwall
On our Gr Grandfather John Williams's death cert in West Aust it stated he was born in Penzance (c1855) and his parents were John Williams and Elizabeth Graves but so far nothing has turned up so thinking info might be wrong.
Their trade was stone mason.
John (c1855) married in South Aust in 1876
There is a John Williams in the IGI born perranuthnoe 1856 but not convinced he is the one.
Any help appreciated
EddieW
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osprey
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2351
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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there's this possible-ish
John Williams sept qtr 1853 Penzance vol 5c pg 511 with Elizabeth Grose on the same page
Do you need census info? I think I can see your John RG9/1591 folio 76 pg 1 - father John rather older than mother Elizabeth.
I'll have a dig around anyway
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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osprey
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2351
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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OK, now the Elizabeth who looks to be be the mother of your John gives her place of birth as Kenwyn. On the opc search site
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/
there is a transcription of the 1853 marriage I found. Elizabeth's father is given as Peter Grose and in 1851, there is this Elizabeth who ties in for age with the one I found in 1861
Kea HO107/1910 folio 756 pg 9
Peter Grose head mar 75
Sarah wife 54
Elizabeth 21 ag lab
all born Kenwyn
1861 Quay St, Madron RG9/1595 folio 35 pg 8
John Williams head mar 69 porter seller b. St Just West(?)
Elizabeth wife 30 b. Kenwyn
Elizabeth dau 7
John son 6
Thomas son 4
Mary Ann dau 1
all children born Penzance
Could the surname Grose have been slightly misremembered/mistranscribed? Did his marriage certificate have his mother's details?
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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osprey
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2351
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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this could be John Williams in previous census entries
1851 Poundervoor Lane, Madron HO107/1918 folio 762 pg 15
John Williams head widower 59 cooper b. St Just in Penwith
Mary Field servant 36 b. Ireland
1841 Poundervoor Lane, Madron HO107/143/3 folio 47 pgs 10 - 11
John Williams 49 cooper
Mary 48
Richard 11
all born in county
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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osprey
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2351
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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have you tried the registrars in Penzance to see if they can find your John's birth certificate amidst the other John Williams birth registrations in the district?
The Register Office
Alphington House
Alverton Place
Penzance
TR18 4JJ
penzanceregistrarsatcornwall.gov.uk
replacing at with @
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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EddieW
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 201
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Thanks osprey
You have certainly got the goods on that family.
There were plenty of mispelt names in those days but it is certainly Graves on his death cert.
No info on the mother appart from Elizabeth yet.
Grose seems to be the closest in cornwall.
I will try the Register Office but there can be 6 or so John Williams in one quarter around the same area in cornwall.
It's easier to look for a needle in a haystack.
Thanks again
Cheers
Eddie
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osprey
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2351
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Between the start of civil registration in 1837 and the end of 1861, there are only 6 bmd events for anyone called Graves in Cornwall. Five of the 6 are at the other end of the county, and the other one is Liskeard - not near Penzance. Of that 5, 4 look to be the same family and one of them is ' The Honourable'. So I would say that Graves is not a common name in Cornwall.
At a guess, the name on the death certificate will not have been supplied by John Williams, but by whoever registered the death, so they may have misremembered. Was the mother's surname on the marriage certificate?
If you contact the registrars, they are more likely to check the birth certificates than the GRO, and you do have the parents' names to help.
Hope something comes of your enquiries there. The only other Williams family with a John born 1855 or so in Penzance, parents John & Elizabeth that I can spot, are still in Cornwall in 1901 - father & son both mariners. Have to say, I could see no sign of the Williams family on the census after 1861...
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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EddieW
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 201
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Thanks osprey
That rules out the name graves for me and makes the name Grose the likely one.
No mothers name on the marriage cert, it's a South Aust marriage.
They have mothers maiden name here in West Aust.
So now to contact the Registrars Office and see what they come up with.
Eddie
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