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Topic: NZ:1957 "pensioner".. what did this imply? (Read 434 times)
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charlotteCH
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 968
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Can someone please tell me what the use of the term "pensioner" in a probate listing in NZ imply? Did everyone over a certain age[he was b 1880] get a pension? or was it given only to those whose assets/income fell below some level?
Did one have to have become a NZ citizen to get a pension or just be a resident? He'd lived in NZ since 1927.
I'm curious about this description of Hastings as he'd not been broke in 1927 when he arrived in NZ.
EDWARD BLAKEY HASTINGS, probate filed 28 Jan 1958
Given as Pensioner of Napier
AAOW W3846 8832/58
Archives Wellington
Any info much appreciated.
Thank you,
charlotte
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HARGREAVES, HANSON, BAILEY, BURTON, HEWITT, JAGGER, LOCKWOOD, UTTLEY, MIDGLEY, RUDD, TAYLOR, HOLDEN, SHAW Halifax / Sowerby/ Southowram 18C+
GILL, Accrington, Blackburn, West Derby, Lancs, migrated USA 1891 to RI: GILL in SC: HOTCHKISS in RI: PELOQUIN in RI
HUMPHRIES, HILLIER, ALLEN, LYDBURY Nunney/Frome 18-19C
HUMPHRIES, BIGFORD, JOYCE, HEWITT, ROBINSON, McMULLEN, SUFFEL, CARNEY, MARRON, COMPTON, FREEMAN Ont. Canada 1830+
82nd Regt of Foot 1808-1825
1st WRY Militia 1780-1808
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ladybird
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 648
Still looking for the elusive Garfields
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Looks as if they're going to move the goalposts again too over the next few years..up to 70.
At this rate I'll be working forever!!!
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Main names: Scotland (Travellers) - Townsend/Townsley Lanark and Stirling - Jeffrey. Northumberland/ Durham - Newton, Patrick, Nixon, Sharp. Warwickshire and London - Garfield. Ireland - Marah/Meara. Lancashire - Wilson other offshoots - Berry, Steven, Craig, Atkins, Fuller, McClure, Todd, McIntyre, Stewart, Conway, Buck, Heather, Winter, Letley, Beaumont Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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charlotteCH
RootsChat Veteran
Online
Posts: 968
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Frederickay & Terry, Thanks for that info.. The mystery still remains why someone would be called "pensioner" on the probate entry. Have you any comment on that? I guess it's perferable to saying "old duffer", but why not retiree or whatever his occupation was ? Seems unlikely that a family membe would put "pensioner"?
If Edward Hastings had been dependent solely on the govt pension it would seem unlikely that he'd have had sufficent in assets to bring his estate under probate law. I wonder what other descriptions are used on the probate entry.. maybe I'll ask on list about that.
And ladybird, rotten luck about the goalpost moving- they have a habit of doing this if it has anything to do with me also. Hang in there...
Thanks again,
charlotte
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HARGREAVES, HANSON, BAILEY, BURTON, HEWITT, JAGGER, LOCKWOOD, UTTLEY, MIDGLEY, RUDD, TAYLOR, HOLDEN, SHAW Halifax / Sowerby/ Southowram 18C+
GILL, Accrington, Blackburn, West Derby, Lancs, migrated USA 1891 to RI: GILL in SC: HOTCHKISS in RI: PELOQUIN in RI
HUMPHRIES, HILLIER, ALLEN, LYDBURY Nunney/Frome 18-19C
HUMPHRIES, BIGFORD, JOYCE, HEWITT, ROBINSON, McMULLEN, SUFFEL, CARNEY, MARRON, COMPTON, FREEMAN Ont. Canada 1830+
82nd Regt of Foot 1808-1825
1st WRY Militia 1780-1808
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trish251
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Posts: 8243
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In Australia what is listed as occupation on the probate is whatever was listed on the death certificate. Whoever completed the death certificate presumably put pensioner - perhaps to indicate retirement. It may not relate in any way to his income or assets.
Going back to probate law - and sorry, my examples are from Australia - I have a number of wills that went to probate and were worth less than 100 pounds. 1890 - 1950. Duty was not payable, but probate was required or banks and similar would not release the funds. Sometimes it was because a person died intestate & family wanted to get access to the estate - they didn't always know what the value would be. One of my ancestors was described (presumably by his son) as Bankrupt Businessman. This was on the death certificate & the probate papers.
Today in Australia there are no death taxes, but many estates have to go through probate to get funds released. It does not relate specifically to the value. if an estate is solely between husband/wife, financial institutions may not require probate to release the funds, as I found with my mother's estate, but when my father died and the estate went to his children the organisations holding his assets required the legal paperwork
Trish
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charlotteCH
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 968
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Trish,
Thank you for that explanation. With the man I'm seeking out the sum of money and his assets are not my focus but rather if he had descendants. I was a bit surprised to see "pensioner" as it didn't seem to be the sort of description a family member would give in 20th C. Maybe he had no family to deal with things and the death cert was filled out at a hospital which had details that indicated his age and that he received a pension..
All this is speculation but considering it is about 24 hrs since Edawrd Hastings & his probate filing was located that is the stage I'm at.
Thank you again for the trouble you have taken.
charlotte
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HARGREAVES, HANSON, BAILEY, BURTON, HEWITT, JAGGER, LOCKWOOD, UTTLEY, MIDGLEY, RUDD, TAYLOR, HOLDEN, SHAW Halifax / Sowerby/ Southowram 18C+
GILL, Accrington, Blackburn, West Derby, Lancs, migrated USA 1891 to RI: GILL in SC: HOTCHKISS in RI: PELOQUIN in RI
HUMPHRIES, HILLIER, ALLEN, LYDBURY Nunney/Frome 18-19C
HUMPHRIES, BIGFORD, JOYCE, HEWITT, ROBINSON, McMULLEN, SUFFEL, CARNEY, MARRON, COMPTON, FREEMAN Ont. Canada 1830+
82nd Regt of Foot 1808-1825
1st WRY Militia 1780-1808
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trish251
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 8243
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I know in Australia the term pensioner has been in / out and in fashion  My father in 1982 described himself as same on his Will - whereas my mother put her profession (which she hadn't followed for over 30 years). It may well have been seen by your man's family as a generic term - so I hope you find some descendants 
Trish
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Kea
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 240
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Hi Charlotte,
You do realise, don't you, that you can get a copy of the probate record for your Mr Hastings?
Either post a look-up request on this board and ask someone to view it for you and note down details from the will or you can contact Wellington Archives directly and they will send you photocopies. I think you only pay for the copying.
Wills can be a mine of information - you will probably find out how much the person's estate was worth and they usually include details of spouse and children.
As the others have said, I wouldn't read too much into the "pensioner" thing.
Regards,
Stephanie
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TURNER - Somerset / New Zealand
BETTY , TREMBATH - Cornwall / New Zealand
KEDGE, PARSONS, LEE - Norfolk
CRUICKSHANK , ALLAN - Scotland / New Zealand
HAVELOCK - Durham
GREEN - Durham / New Zealand
GIBBENS / GIBBONS - New Zealand
SARGENT - Lincolnshire
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