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Topic: Brickwall with: Minnie Helena Burdett (Read 2338 times)
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howdee
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 92
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi all
I'm at one of those famous brickwalls with Minnie. Born:1858.
No birth Record found.
No 1861 Census record found.
1871 Census, she is a visitor.
1881 Census she is a lodger.
1887 She married Thomas Wood.
I can only think, she was born abroad. Due to the above circumstances, I can't find her parents.
I'm stumped, any help or advice would be greatly apreciated.
Thanks for reading
Howard
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Gill, Owen, Barter, Griffin, Arnison, Langley-Hansler Nobbs, Hunt, Angel,
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avm228
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5123
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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What does her marriage certificate say about the name and occupation of Minnie's father?
Anna
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
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howdee
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 92
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Pauline and Anna
Thanks for your interest. Unfortunately, the full Census isn't very helpful. In 1871, Minnie aged 13, was visiting, James and Caroline Masey. Probably close relatives. In 1881 Minnie was a lodger of Mary Wood, who I believe was her future husband's mother. (his second marriage) I did a search for Wood/Masey marriage but drew a blank.
I don't have Marriage Cert. Minnie was my uncle's and his half sister's (my cousin) grandmother. The relationship is complicated by a second marriage. I'm following the line for my cousin and will ask her if she wants to get the Cert.
I wondered if there was any way of checking on-line, for Brits born abroad, if parents were serving in the forces for example.
Howard
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Gill, Owen, Barter, Griffin, Arnison, Langley-Hansler Nobbs, Hunt, Angel,
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avm228
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5123
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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These seem to be the references:
1871
RG10/588/86/7
1881
RG11/584/50/3
Anna 
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
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howdee
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 92
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Census Ref's
I now know what ref's, due to Anna's reply. I'm no expert at this and have only searched (Ancestry) using names etc, in this case, only one Minnie Burdett, England, b: 1858/1859 popped up, unlike some names, there aren't thousands of possibilities. I guess I've missed something.
I'm guessing that the two Census ref's are the same Minnie, "Circumstantial indications" as one doesnt have the "H" in.
Please don't go to too much trouble, I thought that someone with greater knowledge than me, could suggest other search options for finding birth/parentage or simply say I'd had it.
Thanks
Howard
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Gill, Owen, Barter, Griffin, Arnison, Langley-Hansler Nobbs, Hunt, Angel,
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casalguidi
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 11918
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It's a difficult one for sure
I found a Helen BURDETT birth registered Chertsey (Surrey) registration district March quarter 1859 http://freebmd.rootsweb.com and I wonder if she could be this one 
1861
34 Cleveland St, Marylebone, Middlesex
Charles BROWN head mar 24 baker journeyman b.London Middlesex
Elizabeth wife 29 b.Walton on T. Surrey
Ellen BURDETT niece 2 b.Walton on T. Surrey
RG9/69 folio 16 page 28
I assume that Walton on T. is probably Walton on Thames.
Nothing to link anything though 
Is "your" Minnie the one living in Lambeth 1901 saying she was born in Bow? Where does the 1891 census say she was born?
Casalguidi
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avm228
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5123
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Howard, did you see the first of my replies above (about the marriage certificate)? If you don't already have it I do think it would be well worth ordering, as this is certainly a tricky one on the censuses.
Edited - sorry, I now see that you say you don't have it, but I do think it's an essential next step if progress is to be made.
Anna
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
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suffolk*sue
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5093
Catherine Sandys, I WILL find out where you went.
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Theres another Ellen here of about the right age in Shoreditch.
1861
RG9; Piece: 231; Folio: 175; Page: 40;
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avm228
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5123
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Theres another Ellen here of about the right age in Shoreditch.
1861
RG9; Piece: 231; Folio: 175; Page: 40;
Well found, Sue
She's likely to be the Ellen Ann BURDETT whose birth was registered Sep 1859 Shoreditch 1c 105.
... though come to think of it, Sep qtr is a bit late considering she's already 2 in the 1861 census.
Perhaps she's Eleanor Ann BURDETT reg Mar 1859 Shoreditch 1c 101
Anna
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
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avm228
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5123
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Perhaps she's Eleanor Ann BURDETT reg Mar 1859 Shoreditch 1c 101
She is indeed Eleanor in 1871 and 1881, still living with her family so not our Minnie Helena.
1871: RG10/301/43/12
1881: RG11/241/91/40
Anna
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
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Joyful
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 426
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The IGI has the following Helen/Eleanor/Ellen Burdetts
No 5 Ellen Burdett was born in Boston, Suffolk Massachusetts and christened 16 Oct 1859 Bishop-Norton Lincoln. F John M Thomasin.They are all 'extracted' entries except for no: 4 which is submitted and has William as F and Mary as Mother. Minnie is sometimes a pet name of Mary.
Results for: Helena Burdett, Birth/Christening, 1856 - 1860, England, British Isles
Exact Spelling: Off
[refine search]
Prepare selected records for download
International Genealogical Index / British Isles - 5
Select records to download - (50 maximum)
1. ELEANOR ANN BURDETT - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 21 DEC 1858
2. HELEN ANN BURDETT - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 07 JUN 1859
3. HELEN ANN BURDETT - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 03 JUL 1859 Saint Leonards, Shoreditch, London, England
4. HELEN BURDETT - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 21 JAN 1859 Walton On Thames, Surrey, England
5. Ellen Burdett - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 16 OCT 1859 Bishop-Norton, , Lincoln, England
I hope I haven't muddied the waters too much -much more familiar with Scotland.
Joy
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Anderson R&C & Orkney, Jack, Patience, Hood R&C, McVicar Argll & Glasgow, Gourlay Glasgow, Docherty Glasgow, McNicol Argyll, Leask Orkney, Cumming Okney,
Tait Orkney, Brown Orkney, Sinclair Orkney, Craigie Orkney, Foulis Orkney, Beard Gloucester & Bundarra NSW, Pamplin Cambridge & NSW, Ashman Cambridge, McCarthy Ireland & Glen Innes NSW, Raleigh Ireland, Connelly Ireland, Waldron Ireland.
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lizdb
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9414
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I dont think there are any grounds for thinking she was born abroad.
Both censuses give a London birthplace, 1881 especially being quite specific.
1871
5 Manchester Terrace Poplar
james Masey 46
Caroline 48wife
Edwin Beavis lodger 32
Thomas Beavis lodger 28
Minnie Burdett visitor 3 bn Clerkenwell
1881
Cornwall rd LAmbeth
Mary Wood 70 widow ?shopkeeper
Emma A Buckland widow dtr 41 stewardess domestic
Ada MAry Buckland g/daughter 12
Jane Humphrey sister widow 56 nurse
Minnie H Burdett lodger/boarder Unm 22 Bookbinder, bn Middx Victoria Park
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lizdb
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9414
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You ARE sure that it was Minnie Helena Burdett that married Thomas Wood? Do you have a birth cert of a child of the marriage to confirm her maiden name?
The reason I ask is that the "other" bride on the page for the marriage is also a Minnie (Minnie Usher)
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