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Topic: Brickwall with: Minnie Helena Burdett (Read 2339 times)
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lizdb
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9414
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Have you got her in 1891 with husband Thomas? I cant find them.
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suffolk*sue
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5097
Catherine Sandys, I WILL find out where you went.
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I don't think we are going to proceed any further with this until the marriage cert is obtained, to hopefully find out who Minnies father was.
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howdee
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 92
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Casalguidi and all of you chatters.
Thanks for joining the hunt. While I was checking some info after Casalguidi's reply, you all got in before me.
The story as I know or suspect it:
1871: as above, Minnie was a visitor with James and Caroline Masey, born Bath. ( Masey was given as a middle name for Minnie's son Bertram and his two sons, inturn) I suspect that Minnie's mother was a Masey as a result of this.
1881: Minnie is lodging with Mary Wood, Thomas William Wood's mother's name.
1887: Minnie married Thomas W. Wood, his second wife.
1891: Couldn't find the family. Strange!
1901: Just found the family, living at Kennington Oval, lambeth. The ages differ somewhat from 1881 but I'm sure it's them. Ref: RG13,413,38, page3.
I'm sure it's Minnie Helena Burdett as there are no Wood/Usher births shown either and she is listed as Minnie H. Wood in Census.
My (much older) cousin knew that there was an East London and West country connection, also that they lived at Kennington Oval, so that helps a bit.
It all seems to be correct but no 1861 or 1891 Census and no birth record.
My cousin will have to get the Birth Cert "or I will"
Sorry if I've missed anything and thanks for all of your interest.
Howard
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Gill, Owen, Barter, Griffin, Arnison, Langley-Hansler Nobbs, Hunt, Angel,
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avm228
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5130
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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1871: as above, Minnie was a visitor with James and Caroline Masey, born Bath. ( Masey was given as a middle name for Minnie's son Bertram and his two sons, inturn) I suspect that Minnie's mother was a Masey as a result of this.
I note that by 1891 James Masey was widowed and living in Poplar - with him was a niece, Jessie E. BURDETT - 28, dressmaker, b Clerkenwell. She may be the key to identifying the correct Burdett family.
RG12/330/83/45
Incidentally, James is enumerated as James F. Masey in 1891 but it seems likely he was in fact James Thomas Masey who died aged 75, Dec 1899 Lambeth 1d 313. He's James T. Masey in 1881.
Anna
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
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avm228
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5130
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Jessie's in service in Hampstead in 1881 aged 20, b London Middx.
Possible birth:
Esther Jessie BURDETT Sep 1860 Islington 1b 272
Possible marriage:
Jessie Esther BURDETT Mar 1898 Whitechapel 1c 377
to Joseph BALKEVICE or Alan Francis C. DICKSON (other bride on page is Annie KARPAVICYTE)
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
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avm228
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5130
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Yes, that does look like them. No helpful cousins or siblings of Jessie staying, unfortunately 
I must say I really cannot find Jessie/Esther either as a baby in 1861 or as a 10 yr old in 1871. There is an Elizabeth Sophia BURDETT who died Islington Jun 1861 - no age given in the index, but I'm wondering whether the young Burdett girls were orphaned and in a workhouse or similar.
Anna
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
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lizdb
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9414
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One thing that has come up is that it is a strong family tradition to alternate between Christian names!
Even Alan Francis C Dickson seems to join in, being Charles on census.
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lizdb
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9414
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Not that it is much help, but James and Caroline MAsey were still at Manchester Terrace Poplar in 1861 (though say bn Bristol then), running Tobacconists shop.
No little nieces with them, though.
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jorose
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4657
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Around Clerkenwell, there was a Julius Theodocious Burdett, a printer/stationer/publisher, who seems to have had a rather checkered history! Here's what I can find out about them:
12 Jan 1849 - Julius Theodosious Burdett, son of William Francis Burdett and Sarah Ann, christened in St. Pancras - born 10 April 1830.
Mar quarter 1849, Marylebone - Julius Theodotius Burdett m. Sarah Ann Langham
Four daughters listed on IGI - Julia Sarah Frances, b. 1849, Louisa Clara, b. 1851, Emily Ann, b. 1855, Rosina Theodosia, b. 1856
The Morning Chronicle (London, England), Thursday, April 8, 1858
Sarah Ann Burdett was called into court to answer the charge of beating her husband. Her address was given as 4, Garnault-place, Clerkenwell, and he of 95th St-John-street, Clerkenwell. They had been married about 9 years and had four children, but had separated 10 months previously, taking care of two children each.
Lloyd's Weekly Newspaper (London, England), Sunday, April 24, 1864; Issue 1118.
An inquiry held into the death of Emily Jane Burdett, otherwise Sneesum, aged 31. She had lived with Julius Theodosius Burdett, printer, as his wife, for about seven years. He had three children by her; she had four children altogether, and the eldest was a girl of twelve. One of the children is named as Annie Burdett. It is also said he had three children by his wife. Emily lived at Russell-House, Old Ford.
Emily's death is on the freebmd index under Emily Jane Sneezum.
Julius Burdett may have died in 1865 in Greenwich (freebmd).
By 1871 the wife Sarah seems to have remarried or is at least living with William E. Russell in All Saints, Finsbury (RG10/257 20/34). Three of her daughters (all except Julia, who is elsewhere as a servant) are with them. (in 1866 freebmd there is a marriage - William E Russell and Sarah A Burdett, Lambeth).
So could Minnie and Esther Jessie/Jessie Esther be two of the children of Julius Burdett and Emily Snee(sz)um? The entire family seems to have disappeared off the radar in 1861 - but there are areas which are missing from the 1861 census, including parts of Islington I believe.
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howdee
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 92
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi, back again!
Wow!!! this is turning into an Agatha Christy, I didn't realise how interesting this line could be.
Casalguidi, You're right, I did mean Marriage Cert. thanks and thanks for finding the 1891 Census, in spite of the dodgy spellings and ages. Brilliant!
Anna and Lizdb, your lateral thinking has turned up some interestin and relevant info. I haven't got my head around it all yet.
Jorose, That's fascinating and very well found. I'm going to read your info a few times.
As you will all gather, I've only scanned through, I will have to read through a time or two to take it all in.
I'm very grateful to you all
Howard
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Gill, Owen, Barter, Griffin, Arnison, Langley-Hansler Nobbs, Hunt, Angel,
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lizdb
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9414
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jorose - I think you are on to something there!
At the risk of confusing everyone, I found this family in 1891 who I guess must be related in some way - Sneezum is hardly a common surname nor Helena a common Christian name
RG10 443 46 19
Longbourne Blgs Shoreditch
Charles John Sneezum 29
Mary Ann Sneezum 35
Charles Wm 7
Henry John 6
Elizabeth A 4
Helena 2 bn Hackney
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avm228
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5130
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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So could Minnie and Esther Jessie/Jessie Esther be two of the children of Julius Burdett and Emily Snee(sz)um? The entire family seems to have disappeared off the radar in 1861 - but there are areas which are missing from the 1861 census, including parts of Islington I believe.
I see that the address at which Julius Burdett and family were enumerated in 1851 (24 Rosoman Street, just around the corner from the former FRC!) appears not to have been enumerated in 1861. Enumeration appears to have started at no 35 Rosoman St: RG9/199/58/25. Also enumerated are nos 2-17 St James' Buildings, Rosoman Street: RG9/199/58/33 and onwards. So - had a load of houses been demolished (perhaps to build St James' Buildings?). Or were several households in Rosoman St simply missed out in 1861?
Anna
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
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howdee
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 92
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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After trying again to find, Minnie, Thomas Wood and family in the 1891 census by doing searches by name, I entered the ref's provided by Casalguidi.
I found them.
They have been transcribed as Woon. Hence we couldn't find them. An amazing piece of detective work Casalguidi, How did you do it?
I said in an earlier post, I just found the family in 1901 census. I should have said I just rechecked the 1901 census, as I had seen it before and got the offspring's names from it. apologies.
I'm now fascinated by the enquiry into the death of Emily Jane Burdett, as posted by Jorose, Amazing find.
Great effort by you all
Howard
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Gill, Owen, Barter, Griffin, Arnison, Langley-Hansler Nobbs, Hunt, Angel,
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