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Topic: Could this have been taken in 1892? (Read 872 times)
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IrishOrigins
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 46
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Last week I was all fired up with enthusiasm about my "image" in the family photo but then got caught in the problem which occurred to prevent photos being posted and lost both my message and the attachment.
Back again to give it another try.
First of all, Charles - I must apologise for not thanking you for cleaning up the original photo for me. I did mention it in another post, but forgot to thank you personally. My apologies. Excitement sometimes gets in the way of good manners.
With the two independent sources on the forum "seeing" the image I'd talked about, my husband has become interested again in this mystery photo. The thing that fascinates him is that the image of the Chinese man seems to be in good proportion to the people in the "real" photo, and also he is upright, almost as though he was standing behind the group being photographed. Had it been a relatively recent photograph he would have thought someone had made an attempt to superimpose one image on top of another in order to make a "complete" family group.
I have cut a section of the photo and will post it here. Is there anyone who can remove "noise" (or whatever it's called in photographic terms) to make the image clearer? This could well be the only likeness of my great-grandfather known to exist. I live in hope!!
I've heard the term "de-gaussing" but until now associated it with war ships. Is such a thing possible with photos?
Whatever the terms, I have seen magic performed on this forum and hope that someone out there can help in this case.
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Byrnes, Wexford.
O'Brien, Hannigan, Waterford & Tipperary
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IrishOrigins
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 46
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Don't want to double up on a posting and I know I've asked the question before, but I would really love some advice.
Is there anyone around with the expertise to highlight the image in the background of my original photo? We have no idea of who or what "he" is, nor how the image came to be in this photo. Most probably it is a transfer from a photo formerly held in the same frame, I don't know. It would be lovely to think it was a "visitation", but let's be practical first and worry about other possibilities later!!!
We have tried to do something with it here at home, but prejudices and biases come into play and I am only too conscious of the effects these can have on our attempts to clarify the image.
I have explained the "presence" in a previous post and have also posted a cutout of the area of concern, so won't labour the point here.
If someone could try to clean up this mystery image I would be really grateful. Alternatively, some words of wisdom would be equally appreciated.
Philippa
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Byrnes, Wexford.
O'Brien, Hannigan, Waterford & Tipperary
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IrishOrigins
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 46
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Oh Jim, that is really putting the cat among the pigeons. In spite of your adding to the dilemma  , thank you for taking the trouble!!!
I have to say that my initial reactions on seeing the photo were the same as yours - that the older ones were Polynesian.
However, a friend took a copy of the photo when she met a distant relative of mine in Queensland and this rellie was quick to identify the girl sitting on the chair as her grandmother. A photo of her own daughter apparently bears a strong resemblance to this woman.
In view of that, and of the relevant ages, we had hopefully and tentatively identified the lady on the left as the mother and the one on the right the eldest daughter.
The mother was English and the father Chinese - my great grandparents, if this is the family.
The image in the background looked to us as though it was a Chinese man and we thought (hoped?) it could have been my great-grandfather. 
The photo that Elizabeth (?) is holding is definitely a puzzle and I haven't been able to bring it up as clearly as you have.
I wonder if anyone else is willing to throw their cap into the ring on this one?
It would be so good to find out something about the entire group.
My confusion is growing, but the challenge remains to be taken up.
This is definitely a case of "if only we could"!!!!!
Thank you again,
Philippa
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Byrnes, Wexford.
O'Brien, Hannigan, Waterford & Tipperary
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IrishOrigins
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 46
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Deb, you are great. When we did our little "play" using our rather basic and primitive application I thought exactly the same thing - he's smiling - but as I explained I thought it was imagination and wishful thinking playing a part and so we gave it away.
Jenny, when I first saw the photo I didn't see that image either, it was only after a few sessions of looking and wondering that I noticed it. I, too, thought it was staining or damage, but then I wondered about image transfer, maybe from a photo which had been held behind the original in a frame for some time. My complete lack of knowledge of these things prevents me from even guessing about possible retrieval if it is such an image and that's basically why I started asking questions on the forum. There are obviously experts out there with so much knowledge and skill that I thought I'd ask.
Common sense tells me there's nothing to it, but on the other hand.....?
Let's face it, if we all applied common sense we probably wouldn't be chasing our ancestors the way we are (and life would be so much less interesting) 
I'd still love to see how much of the lining and other marking can be removed to see if the image can become clearer, but no, my hopes aren't too high and I hope I'm not being totally unrealistic.
Still living in hope,
Philippa
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Byrnes, Wexford.
O'Brien, Hannigan, Waterford & Tipperary
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willow154
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1424
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Hi,
Just to throw a complete spanner in the works - I wouldn't totally rule out the young lady and the lady on the right of the picture being french.
Jenny - as you know about these things - when I recently went to a session on photo conservation we were told that it was possible that if two photos were laid face together and stored for some time that an image could be transfered over to the other. Is this possible, and could it perhaps have happened here?
Just a thought.
Paulene 
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IrishOrigins
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 46
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks, Paulene.
From the known history of the family, and because we know who actually owned the photo and said it was "family", I think the French possibility is out. The owner was a direct descendant of the English/Chinese couple and had married a girl of English descent. His son has traced the mother's side back for quite a way and the English-ness (if that's a word) is not in doubt. My sister knew some of the direct line from Elizabeth at school and described them as "small, and very dark", which fits both of our ladies, but particularly the one we have called Elizabeth in the photo.
It's such a shame that we knew nothing of the family's origins until after the generation before me had all died out. Of those of us who are left I am the oldest doing any form of family history research and there is nobody to ask about anything.
As far as I am aware there are no other photos (of this age) of the family in existence, but of course sometimes it's hard to dredge information from people who for some reason or other seem reluctant to even contemplate the past. 
Never mind, I'll keep plodding and who knows? Somewhere someone has information and it's only by digging and being incredibly stubborn that we get anywhere!!!!!!!! 
Thank you again for your comments - everything that is said is valuable and could always open up an new avenue of research.
Philippa
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Byrnes, Wexford.
O'Brien, Hannigan, Waterford & Tipperary
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Pages: 1 [2]
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PossibleFamily2.jpg
(just to add to the mystery)