Jay Cee
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 8
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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My Greatgrandmother was MARTHA SMITH (born abt 1872) and came from a clan of Gypsy's named SMITH who lived in the Nottinghamshire or Staffordshire area. They were headed by ESAU and HENTY SMITH who may have been her parents or grandparents. The group were about 50 in number and owned their own land. Does anyone recognise this family?
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Burto
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 475
Enjoying the silence
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Hi Jay Cee,
Where abouts in Staffordshire/Nottinghamshire were your Smiths from?
I have Smith ancestors who moved from Staffordshire to Duffield to Aberdare to Duffield to Mansfield to Nottingham  so have often wondered about them although they had settled in Nottm by 1861.
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Swift , Matthews, Price , Clarke , Rockley, Dewey (Huguenot?), Turton, Wild, Nottingham
Aldread, Brentnall, Cowlishaw Derbyshire
Elliot, The Borders/Nottingham FWK industry
Smith Bilston Staffordshire
Bennett, Calary? Ireland
Johnson, USA
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Jay Cee
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 8
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you both for your help. Is it possible to find out if Henty SMITH had children, if so, when. My Greatgrandmother, Martha SMITH, born about 1872 and may have been one of her children. Any clues? Jay Cee
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Jay Cee
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 8
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks aa1webb,
The Martha SMITH I am looking for is probably too young to be Henty's child. I have a likely record of a Martha who was married in 1889 aged 17 years and had a father called John SMITH. Could it be Henty's son John that you mentioned? Did he have any children? Can you tell me what the shorthand "buried 1909n aged 70 yrs uplands wks" means. Where is Uplands? Hope you can help.
Regards Jay Cee
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An65
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 457
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Esau Smith b.cir 1809 died 1901 Jan-March Qtr West Bromwich District GRO index 6b 519 aged 92.
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Jay Cee
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 8
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks Amanda,
My email system has been "down" for the last 3 or 4 days so I am now playing catch-up too. Are you related to Esau and Henty by any chance because, according to my family history as passed down, I am, albeit distantly. The family story is that Esau was given the deeds to Black Patch but after he died they were burnt along with his caravan in the traditional way of the Romanies. The land then passed on to the "Crown".
Regards Jay Cee
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Jay Cee
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 8
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I have the death certificate for Esau Smith, King of Black Patch. He was a Retired Horse Dealer who died on 4 March 1901 aged 92 years. His death was registered by an "E. SMITH" who was present at the death in Black Patch. She was his daughter-in-law. Does anyone know the full name of E. SMITH and which of Esau and Henty's sons she was married to? Did she have any children of her own?
Jay Cee
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Jay Cee
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 8
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks aa1webb for your useful info.
I think the 2xE.Smiths you mention would have described themselves as grandson and granddaughter-in-law of Esau.
Working backward down my tree, my g-grandmother was Martha Smith whose father is shown as John Smith (coal miner) on her wedding cert in 1889. You told me that Esau and Henty had another son called John. Do you know if this John married and had children? If he did he may be our link back to Esau.
Will look up the book you mention, I am still waiting for a copy of Rudge's Brumroamin to come through but I can identify photos from him of Black Patch with photos we have in the family.
There is a suggestion that our family of Gypsys' Smith worked the canals. There was (or is) a canal passing near to Black Patch and there are stories that my g-g-grandfather had a site near the canal outside Bulwell (Notts) and the canals outside Luton (Beds) are mentioned; however, I am not an expert on the Gypsey way of life. Can anyone else help?
Jay Cee
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