|
Pages: [1]
|
 |
|
Author
|
Topic: Help Thwaites of Bethnal green London. (Read 270 times)
|
daniel tay
RootsChat Member
 Offline
Posts: 180
|
Hi all,
I need some help help with Thwaites From Bethnal green London, I have been looking for a William Thwaites/Thwaits and some-one found him on 1841 cens with wife Elizabeth 35,
William, John born 1836, Josiah, and Ebenezar. and in 1846 then they had Martha abt 1842/43 & y Henry Thwaites in 1846, also I believe that Elizabeth died in 1846. Now the problem was or is there another William Thwaites in Bethnal Green who married an Eleanor Martin dates and places UNKNOWN, but they also had a John Thwaites born 1836 but he married Mary Ann Martin ? born 1838 they all died in Queencliff Australia.
How can I find who were all William and Elizabeth's children?
looking forward to your replies and many thanks Dan tay.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
TAYLOR, WHTEHEAD, KERSHAW. THWAITES,BERRY,DALLIMORE, WARREN,HOLT.
Lancashire, Rochdale, castleton,oldham,
SOMERSET.
|
|
|
jennifer c
RootsChat Aristocrat
Offline
Posts: 1585
Latest bud on my family tree
|
Hi, The 1841 census was at Globe Street Bethnal Green. This was in the parish of St.Matthews. William's occupation was given as a Weaver.
At St.Matthews around this time there seems to be a few William & Elizabeth having children baptised. Some are with an (e) and some are spelt without?
John Henry Thwaites born 4/7/1845 bapt. 27/7/1845
John James Thwaits 10/12/1835 - 17/1/1836
John Thwaites 18/1/1837 - 12/2/1837
William Ebenezer Thwaits 25/7/1834 - 5/10/1834
Elizabeth Thwaits 7/11/1839 - 8/12/1839
Rebecca Thwaits 11/4/1834 - 11/5/1834
Hannah Thwaites 28/12/1831 - 29/11/1832
Marriage to Elizabeth Martin on IGI says c.1835
Possible marriage for Josiah Andrew Thwaits mar Hannah Cross 29/5/1859 Christ Church Spitalfields.
Jennifer
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Annette7
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 401
|
Going through your message - the marriage you mention to Eleanor Martin is on IGI as a submitted entry only and just says, as already mentioned by Jennifer, date of 1835. Regarding the actual family you mention, the wife Elizabeth didn't die in 1846 and nor can I find any births (or deaths) for a Martha or Henry. The 1yr old Ebenezer appears to have died in 1846 BG.
However, there were 2 Thwaits families headed by a William and Elizabeth (no trace of any William/Eleanor's) both of whom have a son John bc.1836. In 1841 the other family comprised:
William Thwaits 40
Eliza. " 36
William Thwaits 15
Mary Thwaits 14
Hannah Thwaits 10
Rebecca Thwaits 7
John Thwaits 6
Elizabeth Thwaits b.1841 (forgot to note months)
Checking the IGI I found the same entries as Jennifer as well as Mary Ann b.21/10/1827.
The family you originally mention appear to have had the William Ebenezer b.25/7/1834, bp.5/10/1834, John James b.10/12/1835, bp.17/1/1836 and Josiah Andrew (no baptism on IGI but birth is Dec.1838 Shoreditch). Ebenezer was b.jun qtr. 1840 B.G but he appears to have died 1846.
Have found both families in 1851.
43 New Nichol Street, Hackney Road, Bethnal Green, Middlesex
William Thwaits 42 Journeyman Silk Weaver b. Bethnal Green
Elizabeth Thwaits 45 b. Shoreditch
William Ebenezer Thwaits 16 b. Bethnal Green
John James Thwaits 15 ditto
Josiah Andrew Thwaits 12 ditto
Ref. HO107 - 1539 - 44 - 25
Iclater Road, Town, Bethnal Green, Middlesex
William Thwaits 50 Silk Weaver b. Bethnal Green
Elizabeth Thwaits 48 ditto
Hannah Thwaits 19 ditto
Rebecca Thwaits 17 ditto
John Thwaits 15 ditto
Elizabeth Thwaits 12 ditto
James Thwaits 5 ditto
Ref. HO107-1542-418-12
So, there are 2 Johns bc.1836 who are sons of William and Elizabeth's. A John James b.10/12/1835, bp.17/1/1836 and a plain John b.18/1/1837, bp.12/2/1837. There is a marriage on IGI for a William Thwaits to Elizabeth Royfee 4/4/1825 St. Giles, Cripplegate and with this time frame they could be the Wm. & Elizabeth of the other family as their 1st child born 1826.
Don't know if this information makes things easier or more difficult.
Annette
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Scopes (One-Name Study - Worldwide) Suffolk - Grist, Knights, Bullenthorpe, Watcham Scotland - Spence, Horne, Cowan, Moffat London - Monk Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Just walk beside me and be my friend. Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
|
|
jennifer c
RootsChat Aristocrat
Offline
Posts: 1585
Latest bud on my family tree
|
Hi, When does your family go to Australia, we may be able to check which one is left here. Or are you not sure if the Australian family are yours?
Jennifer
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
daniel tay
RootsChat Member
Offline
Posts: 180
|
Hi Jennifer & Annette,
thankyou both for your replies, I am not certain that I am more confused now!
let's start start with the fact I am certain on, My William Thwaites was born abt 1814 Bethnal green Middlesex London (do not known who his parrents were or how many thwaites in this family). I then believe he married a lady call Elizabeth (but do not know the date of marriage) but I also believe they had a number of children from the date of marriage untill 1846 when Henry thwaites was born, My William Thwaites was a weaver in 1841 and in 1851 was Silk hand loom weaver and in 1861 was a wire worker.
Now the reason why you both cannot find Henry or Martha is because Martha born abt 1842/43 was born at home Macclesfield cheshire, and Henry born 1846 was also born at home Derby. please note the address I have in 1851 is 12 Hookbrook Terrace Derby, and the address in 1861 26 anderstaff lane Burton on trent Staffordshire.
What I was trying to find out is how many chridren did they have? Which I think could be William born abt 1834, John 1836, Josiah 1838, Ebenezar 1839,(all born Bethnal green) Martha 1842 & Henry 1846.
In 1871 my thwaites were living in Preston Lancashire, Now I do not know that they went to Australia, All I know was a John Thwaites went to Australia born 1836 and Married a Mary ann Martin, (But this could not be My John Thwaites) also born abt 1836.
does this help?
thanks for all your help Dan tay.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
TAYLOR, WHTEHEAD, KERSHAW. THWAITES,BERRY,DALLIMORE, WARREN,HOLT.
Lancashire, Rochdale, castleton,oldham,
SOMERSET.
|
|
|
jennifer c
RootsChat Aristocrat
Offline
Posts: 1585
Latest bud on my family tree
|
Hello Dan,
I think you need to post the details of the census you already have, in London and the north. It seems strange that we have them in Lonon and Derby in 1851?
Jennifer
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
daniel tay
RootsChat Member
Offline
Posts: 180
|
Hi Jennifer,
Thanks again for your reply, I don't think the London census Are right in 1851, because They show Elizabeth Thwaites on them and I am sure that she died 1846 at about the same time Henry Thwaites was born.
For your imformation I have my Thwaites 1851 cens H0107/2143 543 16 & 17
Derby Derbyshire at 12 Hookbrook Terrace.
so what we need to check is who were there children on the 1841 cens, it could be that William 7 john 5 josiah 3 and Ebenezar are not correct, but I would still like to find out which were William & Elizabeth's children before she died in 1846, but it not so easy because of Willam Thwaites, being in Derby in 1851.
but thanks again for your help
dan tay.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
TAYLOR, WHTEHEAD, KERSHAW. THWAITES,BERRY,DALLIMORE, WARREN,HOLT.
Lancashire, Rochdale, castleton,oldham,
SOMERSET.
|
|
|
Annette7
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 401
|
Clearly there are 3 William Thwaites born Bethnal Green - one bc.1801, one bc.1809 and yours bc.1814. Also it's clear that the 1841 entry you'd had found for you citing children as William, John, Josiah and Ebenezer in Bethnal Green is not your family as they were still there in 1851. Wish you'd mentioned the move to Derby before.
The only other possible entry I can find for a William Thwaite bc.1813/4 (which would be rounded down to 1816) is:
1841 - East Macclesfield, Prestbury, Cheshire
William Thwaite 25 Weaver Not born in county
(apparently lodging with family named Smith).
Checked for deaths for Thwaite/s in Derbyshire between 1846 and 1851 and there is only one female and that is a Martha Thwaites reg'd Mar.1851 which was just before the census. This would seem a good bet for William's wife especially when his daughter also had that name.
To be able to proceed with certainty any further you are going to have to get one of the 2 children's birth certificates to establish his wife's name and then try to find the marriage. The only William to Martha marriage I could find was to Martha Ford 8/2/1839 Manchester Cathedral, Lancs. but this could just be a red herring. Your William appears to have been on his own in 1841 and as status not known we have no way of knowing if he was already married or not.
Annette
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Scopes (One-Name Study - Worldwide) Suffolk - Grist, Knights, Bullenthorpe, Watcham Scotland - Spence, Horne, Cowan, Moffat London - Monk Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Just walk beside me and be my friend. Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
|
|
mc8
RootsChat Veteran
Offline
Posts: 759
Vandecasteele 1932
|
you might want to obtain "ISBN 9780224071758the blackest streets" by sarah wise which centres on the nichol
very well researched (but badly written)-worth getting for an overview of the history of the area, even if you have to take t in small chunks 
monique
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
daniel tay
RootsChat Member
Offline
Posts: 180
|
Hi all, and mc8.
Thankyou very much for all your replies, and still not certain on the date of William Thwaites marriage.
But lets go back over some of the facts I do know, these might help us,
Now my William Thwaites was born abt 1813/1814 Bethnal Green MIddlesex
but there is some doubt on who he Married I thought it was an Elizabeth ? but now it could be a Martha. I also believe that his wife died young ? maybe 1846. Now we can not find the right ones on the 1841 cens, but have the family on 1851 cens at 12 Hookbrook Terrace Derby Derbyshire. H107/2143 543 16 & 17. on this it list William Thwaites head 37 silk hand loom weaver b
bethnal Green with daughter Martha age 8 at Home B Cheshire Macclesfield. and Henry 5 at home Born Derby.
Now ten years later 1861 the family is in Burton on Trent Staffordshire RG/1965 65 6&7, at Anderstaff ? lane. Again there is Willam Thwaites now 48, b Bethnal green with son ? Henry Thwaites 15, wire worker b Derby.
now not certain what has happened to Martha Thwaites ??.
I can them find my William thwaites 57 and widow again on 1871 cens in Lancaster road north Preston living with his son Henry Thwaites and his wife Mary Thwaites, age 24, years from Manchester.
Now can we find the marrige of William Thwaites and who were his parents? and what happen to martha Thwaites his daughter and his wife .
many thanks Dan tay.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
TAYLOR, WHTEHEAD, KERSHAW. THWAITES,BERRY,DALLIMORE, WARREN,HOLT.
Lancashire, Rochdale, castleton,oldham,
SOMERSET.
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1]
|
|
|
|
|
