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Topic: 1841 census lookup for Barham (Read 768 times)
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helenna
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 106
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To CAselguidi,
Thanks for all your efforts here, have to say feel guilty about it as you can see, we have nothing to go on re Henrys life before he was 17. I among several of his desendants have searched every avenue for his birth certificate and parent details, without success.
Yes I have all the details re his 4 marriages and all of his 19 childrens names. I can see where your going with the names, but to date have not found anything that would help.This latest reference to the Tassells is the first I have heard of any relatives.
There is a constant reference from all I have been in contact with, to him being related to Royalty Sorry to be a bore over this, but we have wondered if his mother was perhaps a servant and got herself pregnant and then been paid for his upbringing. He definately inherited 3 -4 fortunes and I am led to believe gambled the lot.
The Col you mention sounds promising in one way as he did seem to be involved in army things and had an Army funeral. I have his obituary from the Bath Chronicle.
Once again thanks.
Helenna
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helenna
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 106
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HI Barbara,
Thankyou so much for looking into my Montagu query.
I Know about the Montagu you have found with the wife Lily, he sounds quite a card, and wouldnt have minded having him as a relative, but, afraid not.
I and many others have searched high and low for HGMs details without success.
He is on the 1871 census in Bath and so on
The school name was given to us by the relative who provided the Tassell details.
Once again many thanks for your time.
Helenna
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Barbara F
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2644
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Hello Helenna
Really am stuck on this one!
I believe The King's School has an archivist so it may be worth sending an email.
The London family is also a bit of a mystery - can't find them in a later census and can only find one birth reg of the youngest child (Herbert) who died young. I did wonder whether there were French connections because of the children's names -Blanche, Eugene.
Have you checked the parish registers for Bridge?
Barbara
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Joy, Larkin, Twort, Baker, Whibley - Brenchley and Horsmonden area Kent Fewell and Speller - Essex and London Headington and Bateman - London Feltwell - Norfolk and London Lewin - India and NZ Evan-Thomas - Wales and London Purser and Cook - Hunts Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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montagu_griffin
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 2
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello Helenna, I'm a Montagu descended from the first Earl of Manchester. I've seen your query re. Henry Graham Montagu. This could be a complete red herring but one of my ancestors George Conway Courtenay Montagu (b.1776 d. 1847) of Lackham House, Wiltshire may have had 2 illegitimate children by two servants. These children were sent (with their mothers) to the work house. I came across this information on the internet posted by Tony Pratt who was researching the Montagu family at Lackham. I wonder if there could be any link?
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helenna
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 106
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To Montagu_Griffin,
Many thanks for replying.
My Henry Grahame Montagu always puts his place of birth as 1839 Bridge, Nr Canterbury, Kent.
Also we have just been told of cousins he had in that area, so I dont really think he is one of those children, because of the location.
However, I do think that his beginnings are something like that.
Thanks Helenna
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montagu_griffin
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 2
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Helenna, thanks for getting back to me... I thought it was probably a long shot. Best of luck in the search for Henry's origins!
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casalguidi
Moderator
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Posts: 10755
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Hi Helenna
I've been thinking about this again 
Being as Henry first turns up (for certain) in a census in Walcot, Somersetshire, I had a look at other Kent born people in Walcot and noticed the following:
1851 28 New King Street, Walcot, Somerset
Elizabeth H ATCHERLEY head wid 35 annuitant b.France (British Subject)
Henry M son 15 scholar at home b.Canterbury
HO107/1943 folio 183 page 13
Who are they I wonder? I couldn't spot them in 1841 to try and eliminate them 
...................................................
I also found the following family in Walcot in 1851:
15 Marlborough Buildings, Walcot
Frances M PAPPILLON head mar 46 husband a landed proprietor b.Barham Kent
Mary G(raham) dau unm 23 b.Barham Kent
Thomas M son unm 22 b.Barham
Emily G dau unm 18 b.Barham
Margaret A dau unm 11 b.Barham
Lila M(atilda) dau 8 b.Barham
David son 8 b.Barham
Florence dau 5 b.Bath Somerset
+ some servants
HO107/1943 folio 2*8? page 4*?
A few co-incidences there don't you think?
Digging around a bit more, the parents were Thomas PAPILLON and Frances Margaret OXENDEN. A licence was granted 6 Sep 1825 for them to marry at Barham in Kent. Thomas PAPILLON was a bachelor of Acrise aged 22 and Frances was of Barham.
Frances Margaret OXENDEN was the daughter of Henry OXENDEN and Mary GRAHAM. From what I can make out, Frances Margaret OXENDEN had several siblings including the Rev. Montague OXENDEN. These were very prominent families and loads of references to them can be found on the net by googling etc..
Hope I've not confused the issue too much more
Can't see anything linking them to the TASSELL family as yet though
Casalguidi 
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helenna
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 106
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Hi Casalguidi,
Many thanks for the further information you have sent me. Isnt that interesting the link between Bath and Barham? Also the name Lilla, which sems to have some significants. On all the documents I have managed to get e.g. marriages deaths etc. he always puts b. Nr Canterbury it isnt until the 1901 census he puts born at Bridge? Have to admit I am at that stage at the moment where I feel like giving up as do several of us descendants who are doing this research.He did have money as to give him his due he made sure his children (nearly all 19 of them) had a good start in life. One thing I have just found out was that people who tried to find out where he came from were warned off? ?Also another of my half relatives said she was told not to go down that avenue as she could regret it. The mystery deepens. Sorry for rambling really do appreciate your interest and when its all solved I promise I will let you know,In the meantime will look into the info you have just let me have.
Thanks
Helenna
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helenna
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 106
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hi Casalguidi,
P.S.
Henry was resident at 17, Hatfield Buildings from 1870/1-1872. Which is interesting.
Helenna
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Gypsy97
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 3
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Helena
I have a Henry G Montague (b)abt 1829, found in 1861 census with Emma & children, Henry, Emma, Eugene & Grace. Eugene was my grandfather & I know he came to Australia in 1888, the year he was marrried. Emma married James Clinton Bishop 1880. Grace M died 1860. I cannot find this family in other census records. There is a Henry Graham Montague in the Times newspaper in 1852 as going to court & he was already in prison for debt. Little Grace M had written on her parish register death record, illegitimate, so the others must be as well, as she was the last born.
I dont know if we are looking for the same H G Montague but it is worth a try as I am not able to find anything else.
Denise
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