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Topic: Who is Margaret Izett's mother? (Read 1107 times)
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ellvera
RootsChat Member
Posts: 243
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I am trying to put together a family tree for a friend who has the good fortune to be travelling to Scotland later this year for work purposes, where she will have a few days “freedom” to use as she likes.
She has Scottish ancestry on both sides of the family – her Father’s family is well documented,but very little is known about her Mother’s side of the family, who emigrated to New Zealand from Lochgelly, in Fife in the 1920’s and apparently lost touch with the family in Scotland.
What she would really love is to find out if there are any relatives still living in the area who would be willing to make contact.I just wish she had expressed this desire a bit sooner!Her mother was born in 1908,so I guess there could be some second cousins out there.
I have explained that in order to discover these relatives, we will have to go back a few generations then see if we can follow the family “forward” and put out some feelers for other people researching the same family and not to be too hopeful. (I will be asking for suggestions later on this subject  )
So, armed with the information that her Grandfather was John Wylie ,a coal miner from Lochgelly,who was a coal miner for a short time after arriving in NZ and then became a Presbyterian “Home Missionary” for the remainder of his life. He had a wife named Margaret,three sons and three daughters –one of whom had an “odd middle name something like Isot”off I went.
I found John IZETT Wylie and his wife, Margaret buried in Dunedin ,and a google search of his name came up with a brief summary of his service with the Home Missionary Society, which also gave me the date of their marriage in Scotland. Another of their daughters had PENMAN as a middle name, which was of course, her Mother’s maiden name. I have managed to get on fairly well with the Penman side of the family.
John’s parents were David Wylie,born ca 1829 and Margaret Izatt, ca 1837 (going by the dates on their death certificates) and this is where I came up against a brick wall:
On both her marriage and death certificates, Margaret’s parents are given as James Izett and Janet Anderson. I have searched the IGI and Scotland’s People for a marriage for these two and a birth for Janet Anderson and can see nothing that fits.
Margaret’s parents were both deceased when she married in 1863.I found a death for a James Izett,”married to Agnes Hynd” in 1861,but there is a blank where his parents details would be.The age is about right.The informant was his son,Robert,which was not much help.
I couldn’t find a death for Margaret,so presumed she died before 1855.
Then I looked for (daughter) Margaret’s birth between 1826 and 1840 which gave me two possible entries:
21/12/1835 daughter of George Izett and Margaret Adamson
26/9/1840 daughter of James Izatt and Euphemia Muir
I have already dismissed the Euphemia because she was still alive in 1863 and couldn’t pin down the other one with any certainty. I have found James and Agnes on various census’ with some very inventive spelling of the surname, and they have a daughter, Margaret, of the right age. Impossible to be sure though.
Then ,yesterday, I thought I’d have another try and discovered a tree on rootsweb which has a James Izatt married firstly to Margaret Adamson in 1833 and secondly to Agnes Hynd in 1837.Both these marriages are extracted records on the IGI and there is a birth for a daughter Margaret to George Izatt and Margaret Adamson in 1835 on SP.
This is where I need another opinion  .I have a feeling that this is the Margaret I am seeking,because it would be easy enough to misinterpret Adamson as Anderson,it is the George/James which gives me doubt.
I have looked at this until I am cross-eyed.Agnes and James had other children, so it will be quite important to establish whether she was Margaret’s mother or not. Also, could the names Margaret and Janet be interchangeable?
I thought it was Agnes and Janet.
There are so many references to Izett and Penman on this board,I have got my fingers crossed that somebody out there has this lot in their tree. (if they have stayed awake through this epic  )
Thanks
Barbara
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« Last Edit: Friday 13 June 08 05:12 UTC (UK) by ellvera »
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9163
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Hi Barbara
Just picking up on the issue of interchangeable names. Margaret/Janet and Agnes/Janet are not seen as interchangeable (For Agnes you can also have Ann or Nancy normally). See this site which is great for picking up on first name variants www.whatsinaname.net
It might be useful for people trying to help you if you posted was census info you have for the Margaret b. c. 1837 that you have been looking at. As you say, given her maiden name, the variations on the name will be many and it will save people time trying to find her in the early years.
Monica
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ellvera
RootsChat Member
Posts: 243
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Thankyou Monica,I have bookmarked that site I am sure it will come in useful later.That rules out my theory then
Yes,I should have thought of putting in the census details.
The only census that has Margaret living with the family is the 1841:
Old Monkland, Lanarkshire, Dundyvan Row Parish 652
Agnes Hynd age 25 born in Scotland
James Izzith age 25 coal miner born in Scotland
Margaret Izzith age 5 born in Scotland
Alexe Izzith age 3 Born in Scotland
Robert Izzith age 2 Born in Scotland
In 1851 there is a Margaret Izett ,servant age 14 living at Townhill Colliery,Dunfermline parish 424,She gives her place of birth as Townhill,Fifeshire:
Rebecca Allam Wife born Clarks,Clackmanens age 30
Alexr Allan Son born Townhill age 2
Henry Allan Son born Townhill age 4
James Brown Lodger born Perth coal miner age 17
Barbara Campbell Serv Born Halbeath fife age 29
John Hind Brother born Halbeath Fife coal miner age 25
Robert Hind Householder born Halbeath Fife coal miner age 27
Magdalene Hodge Daughter born Townhill age 1
Robert Hodge Head born Dunfre Fife coal miner age 33
Margt Izett Serv born Townhill Fife age 14
The Hinds may be related in some way to Agnes Hynd, because in the 1861 census John Hynd is living in Ballingry, Fife.
In 1861, there are two Margaret Izetts of similar age:
Lasswade, Midlothian,Laurel Bank reg 691
Anne Fisher Head born Edinburgh age 71
Margaret Izett Servant born Lomekibrs, fife age 28
M Thomson Sister born Edinburgh age 72
Beath Fife Blinkbonny Row 3 reg 410
Margaret Isset boarder born Dunfermline Coal Labourer age 22
William Peterson Son to Boarder born Ballingry,Fife age 3
Agnes Rankine Daur born Auchterderran age 10
George Rankine Head born Kirkcaldy,Fife coal miner age 42
George Rankine Son born Auchterderran coal miner age 20
Margaret Rankine Wife born Airdrie Lanark age 40
William Rankine son born Auchterderran age 15
When she married, Margaret was a Pit Head Worker and a spinster.I haven't managed to find William Peterson in later census'
I also checked the marriage of George Rankine and Margaret was a Gillespie.
I hope that is a bit more helpful
Thanks
Barbara
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trish251
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9162
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Hi barbara
I had found the 1841, but couldn't find 1851 - apart from the spelling of the time, the spelling of transcriptions can be interesting 
My thoughts from the 1841 and your comments were
If Margaret's mother died early in life, and she was raised by a stepmother - she may be unsure of her mother's name. If however, this Margaret is the daughter of Agnes Hynd (i.e. step daughter of James) it would be unlikely that she would list her mother as Janet Anderson and is thus not your lady.
What a shame she is away from the family in 1851 - hard to determine who were the parents.
As you mentioned the name Hynd - I did wonder about this - but I can find no proof and an "Abt" record from a submitted IGI record does not give confidence, but for what it is worth - There is a submitted IGI record for the birth of a Margaret Hynd c. 1837 - parents John Hynd and Agnes Bowman - Would the marriage of James and Agnes Hynd indicate if Agnes was a widow. If this is the Margaret Izzith from 1841?
Trish
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ellvera
RootsChat Member
Posts: 243
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Trish
I must apologise profusely 
I had typed the birth of the margaret Isett as the daughter of George Izett and Agnes Hynd on SP,when it should have been George Izett and Margaret Adamson.It was my thinking that Margaret was the product of his first marriage to Margaret Adamson,not Agnes Hynd,and therefore Agnes' stepdaughter.
So sorry!
I will get try and get the marriage record for the first marriage next week,(already blown the budget for this month)though I doubt if it will say if James/George is a widower.
It might be helpful to post the names of David Wylie and Margaret Izatt's children:
James 1867
Robert 1858
David 1870
John Izett 1871
Margaret 1874
Isabella 1877
Alexander 1880
David’s parents were Robert Wylie and Janet Christie.So I was thinking the James may be named after Margaret's father,although he is the eldest
Thankyou for taking the time to look at this
Barbara
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trish251
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9162
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No apology needed - at the minute I have 9 expired credits on SP otherwise I would have checked. I keep telling myself it is cheaper than certificates in other countries - but I buy so many more Not sure how I managed to let some credits expire.
I will keep browsing - Have you found the daughter of George and Margaret in 1841?
Trish
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ellvera
RootsChat Member
Posts: 243
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No,I haven't been able to find a Margaret with a father George at all.Still looking though
Barbara
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ellvera
RootsChat Member
Posts: 243
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Just a small update.
Diddy has looked up the OPR for me and found a Margaret Adamson who died ,age 24 in June 1837 of "childbed"
No mention of whether this is a maiden name,but the were no burials for a Margaret Izett at all in Fife.
Really tempting to think this is my Margaret's mother ,and to wonder if this was a second child of James and Margaret and did it survive
If the child had died with the mother,would it have been buried separately, or just interred in the same grave without comment,since it was un-named?
I'm still no better off than before,but it is exciting to know these details especially as James (if it is him) married Agnes Hynd a few months later.
Barbara
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trish251
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9162
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Hi Barbara
I saw the lookup - interesting - I keep being surprised (and I shouldn't be) at how the women in Scotland continued to be known by their maiden names after marriage. I missed alot of folks on the census until I learned to search in both names
I think it would have been doubtful that the child survived at that time unless a wet nurse was quickly found. I have no idea about the burial of the child.
Trish
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ellvera
RootsChat Member
Posts: 243
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Thanks Trish
I forgot to say before,regarding your thoughts that Margaret was the child of John Hynd & Agnes Bowman,who could have been a widow when she married James.I checked that out and John Hynd was still alive and kicking on the 1841 census; they were still churning out children in 1846 according to the IGI.
Barbara
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Addy Hugh
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 4
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Margaret Izetts mother was Janet ANDERSON, that appears on the marriage entry of my gr. gr. grandparents. I am a descendant (A Great Grandson) of John Izett WYLIE and Margaret Hogg PENMAN. I'd love to know more about the Wylie, Penman families I know that one of gr. grandads relations ended up in Canada?
Thanks
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ellvera
RootsChat Member
Posts: 243
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Hello Addy
welcome to rootschat & what a lovely surprise to get a "nibble" after all this time
I do have the certs for Margaret's marriage and death ,which as you say gives Margaret's mother's name as Janet Anderson.My problem is I can find nothing else to support that information.
I have no doubt that the informant gave what they thought was correct information.Margaret's mother died when she was very young.
If you have read the full thread ,you will see that I am researching on behalf of a friend,who is a descendant here in NZ.
May I ask whereabouts you are located?
When you have made a few posts,I will be able to contact you by PM if you want to share information. I will happily share my "theory" with you.
Barbara
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Addy Hugh
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 4
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi,
I'm in Dunedin. I'll read a bit more carefully the threads and keep in touch.
The person you are researching on behalf of must be a distant relative of mine?
Thanks
Addy
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ellvera
RootsChat Member
Posts: 243
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Hi Addy
If you are in Dunedin, you are not that distant
Do you have an Aunt & an Uncle in the North Island?
I have been asked to make a copy of the tree for their sister in Dunedin - this has jogged my memory,so will get on to it
Barbara
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Addy Hugh
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 4
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi,
I worked out who you were doing the research for. That would be one of dads cousins and the family tree that you have been reminded about doing would be for her sister in the Maniototo (Outside of Dunedin).
Will talk to her next time I see her and find out more.
It would be good to find some of the other relatives overseas namely the WYLIE who went to Canada. They may have more info as Gr. granddad John Izett WYLIE was one of the youngest in the family.
There was a story that my grandmother told me of her Great Uncles being in the Queens Guards. Don't know if that could help at all.
Addy
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