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Author Topic: 2 Missing Pheobe Smith's  (Read 738 times)
xavtia
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Posts: 11
2 Missing Pheobe Smith's
« on: Saturday 14 June 08 18:05 UTC (UK) »
My great great great grandfather Joseph Smith born in Woburn 23/11/1833

he married 3 times

Eliza Page on 19 Oct 1855
found her death in Mar 1859
in Steppingley, Beds

Pheobe Scott 8 Sept 1859
in Steppingley, Beds
their Son George Charles is my great great grandfather.
She appears in the 1861 census then disappears

he then marries
Pheobe Stevens
9 Dec 1866
in Steppingley, Beds

in the 1871 census it gives Joseph as married but no mention of his wife
in the 1881 census it gives Joseph as a widow.

have searched the death records but can't find either ladies

anyone got any ideas?

thanks
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PaulineJ
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Re: 2 Missing Pheobe Smith's
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 14 June 08 18:07 UTC (UK) »
If you have marriage date(s) then do you not have parental information for each phoebe?
Or their age(s) at marriage?

can you confirm that the reg district is probably AMPTHILL?

Pauline
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All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
======================================
Brown 1800-> Woolwich (Kent)  Barnett 1800-> Woolwich (Kent)
Pannifer 1830-> Deptford (Kent)  Brierley in Staffordshire(Pre-1875)
Walters in Middlesex(Pre-1875)  Clift,Gould in Devon/Cornwall

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avm228
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Posts: 5131


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: 2 Missing Pheobe Smith's
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 14 June 08 18:51 UTC (UK) »
Phoebe (the first) is 21 b Steppingley in 1861: RG9/1001/77/8

Anna
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
bedfordshire boy
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Posts: 4753
Re: 2 Missing Pheobe Smith's
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 14 June 08 19:02 UTC (UK) »
As Joseph was living in Lancs in 1881 Phoebe II could have died in that county rather than Beds.

Have you checked Steppingley parish register microfilm for burials of either Phoebe?

David
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Beds:   Cople: Luke/Spencer
            Everton: Hale
            Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey
            Potton:  Merrill
            Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey
            Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt
Hunts:  Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock
            Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn         
Cambs:  Bourn: Bowd
             Eltisley: Medlock
             Graveley: Ford/Revell
xavtia
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Posts: 11
Re: 2 Missing Pheobe Smith's
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 14 June 08 19:28 UTC (UK) »
Pheobe Scott was born c1840 her parents where George Scott and Eliza White, age 20 at marriage
Pheobe Stevens was born c1839 her father was Francis Stevens 27 at marriage
district is ampthill.

I did a national deaths search with freebmd and there are only 11 and none fit age wise.

I have Pheobe 1 pre marriage to Joseph but loose her when I find the next marriage.

thanks for the responses
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bedfordshire boy
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Posts: 4753
Re: 2 Missing Phoebe Smith's
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 14 June 08 19:48 UTC (UK) »
In 1861 Phoebe Stevens 21 born Greenfield was living with her parents. In 1871 living with Francis and Mary Stevens was Florence SMITH granddaughter, 2 born Flitton. Looks like a daughter by the second Phoebe.

The plot thickens

1881 living in Luton
Phoebe Asplin head marr 41 Laundress b Greenfield
Florence M Smith dau 12 b Greenfield (whatever her age is indexed as it's definitely 12!)
William C M Smith son 7 b Luton

If Phoebe Smith had married a Mr Asplin it looks like bigamy, unless they had divorced which is unlikely

The GRO index isn't infallible, and her death could have been missed between Ampthill and the GRO. It's why I asked if you'd checked the parish register for burials.

David
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Beds:   Cople: Luke/Spencer
            Everton: Hale
            Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey
            Potton:  Merrill
            Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey
            Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt
Hunts:  Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock
            Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn         
Cambs:  Bourn: Bowd
             Eltisley: Medlock
             Graveley: Ford/Revell
bedfordshire boy
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Posts: 4753
Re: only 1 Missing Phoebe Smith
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 14 June 08 19:56 UTC (UK) »
In 1871 Phoebe Smith lodger married 31 b Greenfield was living at 9 Burr St, Luton in the household of John and Ruth Whitbread.

On 24 Dec 1883 Phoebe Asplin, age 44, father Francis Stevens, married Alfred Wood at Luton (IGI - Extracted)

David
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Beds:   Cople: Luke/Spencer
            Everton: Hale
            Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey
            Potton:  Merrill
            Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey
            Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt
Hunts:  Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock
            Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn         
Cambs:  Bourn: Bowd
             Eltisley: Medlock
             Graveley: Ford/Revell
avm228
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Posts: 5131


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: 2 Missing Pheobe Smith's
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 14 June 08 20:17 UTC (UK) »
Marriage:

Mar 1876 Bedford

Thomas ASPLIN
Phebe SMITH

on same page, 3b 460

Anna
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
bedfordshire boy
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Posts: 4753
Phoebe Smith 2
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 14 June 08 20:20 UTC (UK) »
In 1891
22 Queen St, Luton
Florence Smith head single 22 Dressmaker b Greenfield
William Smith brother single 17 general lab b Luton
Phoebe Wood mother widow 52 dressmaker b Greenfield

David
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Beds:   Cople: Luke/Spencer
            Everton: Hale
            Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey
            Potton:  Merrill
            Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey
            Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt
Hunts:  Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock
            Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn         
Cambs:  Bourn: Bowd
             Eltisley: Medlock
             Graveley: Ford/Revell
xavtia
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Posts: 11
Re: 2 Missing Pheobe Smith's
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 14 June 08 21:10 UTC (UK) »
wow thanks, I've been to the records office in Bedford and have checked the church records but unfortunatley due to moving 3 times and getting ready to move again the documents have been misplaced, hopefully only temporary.

Might explain why Joseph ended up in Lancashire, I would suspect as he married in the same church 3 times the 1st Pheobe must have died and its missing from the GRO because I vaguely remember finding her death at the records office but can't confirm until I find the documents.

Looks like my great great grandfather had 2 more half siblings then.

thanks again for the responses.
Diane
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Almond Yate Bank, Bush Suffolk, Elliot Cumbria,Smith Steppingley,Andrew New Zealand, Callaghan Mayo, Daley Stacksteads, Molloy Mayo
bedfordshire boy
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Posts: 4753
Re: 2 Missing Phoebe Smith's
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 15 June 08 04:35 UTC (UK) »
As Joseph and Phoebe appear to have been living apart in 1871 it must be questionable that William is his child. Whilst Florence's baptism is on the IGI as daughter of Joseph and Phoebe there's no baptism for William, although his birth is on Freebmd. It would need his birth certificate to see who his father is named as - he might not be a blood relation at all to your George

David
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Beds:   Cople: Luke/Spencer
            Everton: Hale
            Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey
            Potton:  Merrill
            Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey
            Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt
Hunts:  Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock
            Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn         
Cambs:  Bourn: Bowd
             Eltisley: Medlock
             Graveley: Ford/Revell
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