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Topic: MARTYN Family of St Columb Minor (Read 4690 times)
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krisesjoint
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10429
Nate at 9 weeks
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Ding and myself got a little sidetracked on one of his threads not relevant to the Martyn Family some time ago and since it is getting a lot of attention of late, due to Ding's discoveries re Jane Trinidad, I have decided to give the family their own thread. I think they deserve one
Re Jane Gertrude Trididad(e) nee Johns.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,309613.0.html
I have done a lot of work on that Martyn Family 
Actually they do come in as extremely distantly related to my family (complex female lines)
Kris 
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« Last Edit: Thursday 19 June 08 22:47 UTC (UK) by krisesjoint »
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krisesjoint
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10429
Nate at 9 weeks
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Hi Ding,
Hope you are about. I have been dying to hear more from you. Your Tree sounds horribly interesting. I know so much about this Martyn Family and the families they marry into  I just love St Columb Minor People  The Martyn Window at the St Columb Minor Parish Church is quite amazing, and so are the gravestones.
Which of Thomas and Gertrude's children do you descend from?
Who does your tree list as the parents of John MARTYN = Gertrude HISCUTT 1763? Gertrudes parents were Gertrude Martyn (the daughter of Thomas and Gertrude Turnavine) who was married to Elias Hiscutt.
I know logistically who John has to be, but if that is so, then there is something which I really am not happy about and so it continues to niggle at me, so I tis rather curious what your tree says 
Kris
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Ding
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 72
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Kris,
Where do I start!!
My line follows two paths, firstly Thomas Martyn = Gertrude Turnavine (one of my mothers names was Turnavine). Their daughter Margaret = Richard Johns, their son Richard = Gertrude Martyn who was the daughter of Joseph Martyn = Dorothy Warne (Joseph was a son of Thomas and Gertrude, Margaret's brother). Richard & Gertrude Johns had a son William who married Jane Lawer, their daughter was Harriet Johns.
Now we go back to another daughter of Thomas & Gertrude Martyn, Gertrude who married Elias Hiscutt. Their daughter, Gertrude Hiscutt = John Martyn (who is another child of Joseph Martyn & Dorothy Warne. John & Gertrude Martyn's son William = Mary Hiscutt & they had a son Silas Hiscutt Martyn.
Silas Hiscutt Martyn = Harriet Johns and their daughter Mary Jane is my Great Grandmother.
As you can see there are lots of cousins marrying!!!
If you want further info. don't hesitate to ask. I had to put it all down on a large piece of paper so that I could follow all the links. I have photos of Harriet Johns and Silas Hiscutt Martyn as well as photos of Tregunell (their home). I also have photos of various cousins.
I inherited a very interesting jug from mum which had Jane Trindade 1831 painted on the side. It turns out that Jane was an older sister of Harriet Johns who married a Joseph Trindade and ended up in a harem. She escaped by bribing the guards with jewelry and being delivered to an English ships captain in a wine barrel. She lived out her days in Crantock with some sisters. There is mention of a dark skinned son and the family tree shows a son Joseph.
I probably have you more confused by now so will finish and let you digest it all.
Cheers Ding.
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Lincolnshire Bell, Australia Bell, Cornish Peters, Australian Peters, Cornish Martyn, Cornish Pollard.
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krisesjoint
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10429
Nate at 9 weeks
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Hi Ding,
Yes a really great family. Sounds like you have heaps. I too have heard of the rescue by her brother Captain Thomas Johns, in his ship the Liberty, of Jane Johns/Trinidad 1799-1872 and the story of a dark skinned son being born soon afterwards (he cannot be substantiated in the Parish Records)
I am very concerned about William son of John and Gertrude = Mary Hiscutt. Ohhohh goodness and this is your line. This is not how I see it 
I have Mary Jane (looks like I haven't followed her to marriage - Last I have listed is 1861 (baptism 19 Mar 1839 Crantock father gentleman of Tregunel) daughter of Silas Hiscutt and Harriet Johns as you mention and he the son of William and Mary (don't have than marriage, so did not know Mary's maiden name) Now sorry to say here is where we become horribly unstuck, cas I don't believe he is John and Gertrude's Son.
William the son of John and Gertrude = Elizabeth Darke He was from Trevethick and is immortalised in Martyn Window 
I did a bio on him for the Church
Here is a Photo of the Martyn Graves at St Columb Minor
John and Gertrude on the left, William and Elizabeth on the right and Williams brother John behind him.
Kris
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krisesjoint
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10429
Nate at 9 weeks
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Phew....Thank heavens for that - having a nervous breakdown about William as I knew I was right, and hearing this was your line.......What a relief - I do agree William 1767 - 1848 Crantock was the son of Thomas and Ann King
There was a brother of Harriet and Jane called Thomas so presume he was said sea captian (I have 13 children to William Johns and Jane Lower) PLEASE NOTE: Thomas was found to be an accountant - It was brother William who was the Captain. Please see Jane Trinidad thread listed in first post
Will study these other things later....sounds like have some fascinating stuff for sure.
Here is the same Photo taken 100 years previously with the Ozzie Martyn Girls at the Grave of their gggrandfather John
Different angle and without the ugly hall - isn't it lovely
I can't see any reason you would not be able to download the pics but will PM you
Kris
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vivien459
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 2
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello there,
Just stumbled across your thread. My husband is a Martyn-Johns. We're not actively researching the family - I'll leave that as a retirement project for him one day - but was delighted to get a fuller version of the harem story. We'd heard someone was captured by pirates and brought back by her brother but I had never quite believed it.
We have a copy of a family tree (pretty literally - shows branches, roots etc) printed in the mid 19th century, tracing back to the mid 17th century (from memory). I assume you already have a copy yourselves, but if not, leave a message and I'll arrange to pass it on.
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Ding
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 72
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Vivien459,
I was delighted to receive your post re Martyn/Johns tree. I have only been researching this since my mother died some 14 months ago and left me letters, photos, artifacts etc. (including Jane Trindades jug). I do have a copy of the tree you talk about. The original is in a sorry state so I have framed it to preserve it. Fortunately photocopies were taken of it a few years ago and I can read them.
I would be very interested to know where your husband fits into the tree. Maybe we will be able to exchange photos, information etc. Please keep in touch. Are you in the UK?
Regards Ding.
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Lincolnshire Bell, Australia Bell, Cornish Peters, Australian Peters, Cornish Martyn, Cornish Pollard.
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vivien459
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 2
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello from England.
My husband is Richard Andrew M-J, son of Bradford Alfred M-J who is son of Rev Constantine Bradford M-J. CBM-J would have been born in the late 19th century. He died long before I came on the scene tho' I did notice that the UK national archives have his wartime diaries (1914-18) in their catalogue.
My father-in-law and his younger brother both have handed-down stories about their branch of the Ms and Js before (and after) farm bankruptcy overtook them and might well respond to letters. The mark on our copy of the tree suggests they are descended from John Johns (cousin of Mrs (?) Trinidad) and Mary Humphreys - no doubt one of them will be able to confirm that. Between them they are in touch with a family called Tremaine and also a huge tribe of Maunsells in New Zealand who are (I think) also descended from the Ms and Js.
As I said, my husband's family, not mine, but if any of this is of interest do let me know. Some M-Js are away at the moment but I foresee a lot of interest in the new information on the "captured by pirates" story when they return.
Kind regards,
Vivien459
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krisesjoint
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10429
Nate at 9 weeks
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Hi Vivien459,
A big welcome to RootsChat.
Here is a little I can tell you about your husband's line - Constantine Bradford JOHNS was baptised in Crantock on the 19 May 1886 son of Thomas Martyn Johns and Maria Annie Tremaine. In the 1891 census he can be found with his mother and some siblings at his grandmother Jane Tremaine's home in St Column Minor, while his father (described as a farmer) and some siblings are in Gloucestershire at the home of his uncle (mums brother) William H Tremaine. By 1901 the family are living in Cheltenham. Thomas is now described as "living on own means"
Now Thomas was not the son of John Bradford Johns and Mary Humphrey but rather the son of his brother Constantine Bradford Johns and Mary Martyn. Constantine Bradford Johns married twice - both of his wives were named Mary Martyn
If Hubby's family have any questions please ask
Cheers Kris
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krisesjoint
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10429
Nate at 9 weeks
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Hi again Ding,
I have 9 children to Thomas and Marie Annie.
Constantine Bradford JOHNS 1 bap 7 Jan 1873 Crantock father gentleman of Trevella (I forgot to say in previous post but Constantine B 2 baptism father was described same - gentleman of Trevella)
he was buried 1 Nov 1882 Crantock aged 9 years and 11 months of Trevella.
I note Vivien refers to them as M-J and I do note the name does appear to have become hyphenated with this branch of the family.
Cheers Kris
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dmollison
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 18
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Dear Kris - and others
I'm another descendant of the Martyns of St Columb Minor - one of my
g4grandmothers being Mary Martyn (1770-1845), daughter of John M
and Gertrude Hiscutt. She married James Liddell (ca. 1765-1839),
who started a family business as printer and stationer in Bodmin in
about 1787 that lasted well into the 20th C.
They married in St Columb Minor in 1793, and had 10 children
(and about 40 grandchildren- virtually all the 19th C Liddells
in Cornwall are descended from them - so much easier to sort than
all those Martyns!). Their 4th son, William Liddell (1802-1854), was a
surgeon who emigrated to Madras with his family in 1833 and became
Coroner of Madras; the attached photo is of his eledest daughter,
my g2grandmother, Susan Gertrude Liddell (1828-1911), probably
from around the time of her marriage in 1847 to a scottish east
india merchant, George Walker (1818-1904). I have a diary of
theirs for 1860-63, when they were living in Wimbledon (with
George still running his company in Madras).
To return to the Martyns, I would love to see the window inscription
mentioned, and the tree showing descent from Thomas Martyn and
Gertrude Turnavine.
Most of what I know about the Martyns is based on Marianne Eastgate's
web pages -
http://awt.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=DESC&db=:1501551&id=I8&ti=5538
- which seems to be mostly accurate, though with a few minor errors.
Three questions:
1) ME's web pages give descent of both Thomas Martyn and
Gertrude Turnavine from the Mundy family of Ryalton (his mother,
one of her grannies), who came to Cornwall about 1540 from London,
where the ancestors included 5 Lord Mayors, including the Edward Shaa,
who is the Lord Mayor in Shakespeare's Richard III.
Do you think this line of descent is sound?!
2) ME gives Thomas M's dates as 1668-1774, implying he lived to 106
- can this be right, or is he being confused with another member of the
family?
3) Do you know the occupations or dwellings of the 18th C Martyns?
ME gives a few - e.g. Mary's brother Thomas, b 1774, was apparently
a doctor, as were two of his sons - one appears in the Wimbledon diary).
Also, her sister Gertrude married Samuel Symons (1769-1820), tenant
of Trerice, a manor now owned by the National Trust; and her youngest
brother Silas Edward M married a sister of the Samuel Symons (1779-1854)
who built the folly of Doyden Castle, also now owned by the National Trust.
I'd be particularly interested in any info on the direct line, i.e. John
-> Joseph -> Thomas -> ...
With best wishes
Denis Mollison
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krisesjoint
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10429
Nate at 9 weeks
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Hi Denis,
A big Welcome to Cornwall
Firstly what a lovely photo of Susan Gertrude Liddell. I knew nothing of William LIDDELL other than his baptism. I am going to split this to a separate thread as Ding's original thread was about a different family - we just got a tad side tracked with the Martyns, and we seem to have many joining us.
I am really going to have to study what you are saying and get back to you.
For Now - The Martyn Window I can show you. We became aware of this window as a chap I was helping had an old photo taken by his family when the returned to Cornwall on a visit in 1906. The Photo was titled The Martyn Window. I found mention of it in a book also and contacted the St Columb Minor Parish Church. The Parish Priest initially did not think the window was dedicated to a family as it depicted the resurrection but when he got a proper look sure enough it was there. The Window is the prominent window in the Church directly above the altar. Here is Peter's 1906 Photo
This New Photo was kindly provided by Chris the Parish Priest. The Martyn Window is in need of repair so if anybody connected to the family would like to see this piece of Martyn History preserved and is in the position to help, I am sure Chris would be delighted to hear from you.
I did a biography for him at the time on William Martyn. Peter - the John and Gertrude descendant I was working with at the time is in Cornwall at the moment, so I look forward to hearing from him when he returns. I am sure he will have visited the Church. He was also hoping to learn more of the properties his family owned.
The full size of this photo is huge. 4.2 mb. The inscription is clearly visible
"TO THE GLORY OF GOD AND IN MEMORY OF WILLIAM AND ELIZABETH MARTYN OF TREVITHIC AND THEIR FAMILY
CHIEFLY THE OFFERING OF CAROLINE THEIR DAUGHTER IN THE YEAR OF GRACE MDCCCXC"
Cheers For Now................Kris
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kilmartin
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 83
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Hi all,
One query I had in looking at Marianne's tree compared with another tree (celtic-casimir) covering part of the same family, is who were the parents of Gertrude Bonython (mother of Gertrude Turnavine)? Gertrude Bonython married Nicholas Turnavine 19 Dec 1656 in St Columb Minor. Marianne has Gertrude's parents as John Bonython and Margery Tresilian. Celic-casimir has Gertrude's parents as John Bonython of Carclew and Gertrude De Burton.
Both tree's have the christening of Gertrude Bonython 2 Jun 1625 at St Columb Minor. I think the issue is really which John Bonython was the mother of Gertrude.
Any Thoughts
Kilmartin
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martyngravesstcolmin.jpg