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Topic: Perth Prison (Read 2702 times)
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Chiad Fhear
RootsChat Member
Posts: 233
Aye mair questions than answers!
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Thanks to the kindness of 'blackcat153', 'GrandmaSheila' and I now have the full story of why Alexander Black and his son - also Alexander - ended up in 'the nick' in 1851
Regards
Chiad Fhear
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Aye mair questions than answers in a world where the past was a different place - that cannae be revisited! Family surnames being researched ... Crawford, Neilson, Lindsay, Reekie, Davidson Drummond, Pearson, Laing ... will do for starters but there's a whole lot more! Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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blackcat153
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 10
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Hi, Jessie,
Don't worry about the codswallop !- I find this system a little bit confusing too - never sure what is a new message and what is the bit I'm trying to reply to!
Anyway, it had nothing to do with the seriousness of the crime - at that period, Perth was the General Prison for Scotland, and, once sentenced, people seemed to get shunted there from all over the country. I also had a (female) family member there in the 1860s, from Aberdeenshire - have also come across folk from the Borders, etc..
If you go on to this webpage for the Archives -
http://www.nas.gov.uk/onlineCatalogue
Type in William Thomson, and tick the box for 'Phrase', go down the date section and enter a fairly generous likely period, then hit Search.
If you don't tick Phrase, you'll get hundreds of pages with William Smith and Robert Thomson
, etc., featuring !
I've just tried this from 1862 - 1882, and got 15 Persons and 86 Catalogue entries, none of which look correct on a quick look, but you could maybe spend more time on it?
If you get hold of a likely entry, hit on the Reference at the left-hand side, and it should come up with more details. A lot of the entries, by the way, are of Sequestration proceeedings ( bankrupcy) so not likely to be your man, I woldn't think.
If you do come up with a reference, and want to know more, let me know, and I'll check next time I'm in West Register House, where the legal archives are held. [Could be a couple of weeks or so, though, so hope you're not in a hurry.]
Janice
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Jessie Thomson
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 6
curious about the past
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Thanks. I've got a bit further but the NAS website is not the greatest for even intuitive thinking. Had a look at the results thrown up by NAS but there did not appear to be anything that could lead me further - but I am inexperienced!
I thought that a crime warranting imprisonment was fairly serious and perhaps unusual for a relatively remote rural area. I know that William Thomson was at home in July 1876 because he has signed his grandfather's death certificate.
In 1881 he was no longer at home according to the Census but in jail in Perth.
He was back at Wardhead, Coull, the family home in 1891 according to the census.
Despite putting in a large date range on the NAS website I don't seem to have had much success.
Clearly I am going wrong somewhere........ any further hints?
Much obliged for the help so far though.
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Lass
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 436
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Jessie, you've certainly come to the right place for help, but I do find the NAS website difficult to navigate too!! It's all thanks to rootschatters, and in this particular case, the wonderful Janice, that I'm progressing forwards with my Crumleys! So I'm sure she or other members will have some hints and tips for you, stick with it!
Lass x
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Jessie Thomson
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 6
curious about the past
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Dear Janice & Lass,
Keep uo with the encouragement for me - I seem to have hit a brick wall with William Thomson.
I'll take up your offer of looking up some details next time in Edinburgh - I'm over a hundred miles north so it's a huge trek to get there to find it either closed or the information not available because I haven't accessed the background correctly.
Further leads in accessing the seemingly labyrinthine website gratefully accepted.
Jessie Thomson
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blackcat153
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 10
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Hi, Jessie,
Still thinking of possible options, will get back to you later tonight!
Janice
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blackcat153
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 10
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Hi, Jessie,
Still not sure of the conventions around using this chatroom, so have sent you some info in a private message.
Let me know if you manage to dig up any more info on William!
Janice
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ibi
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 362
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Serious crimes were tried in the High Court of Justiciary, and these records still exist, except that most often you only get the name of the panel (accused), the alleged crime, the name of the judge, sometimes the names of the witnesses, the where and the when, and the verdict; but no detailed record of the trial, i.e. the evidence of and cross examination of the witnesses.
However, it's near certain that there will be a near verbatim report in a newspaper somewhere, depending on where the crime was committed, and where the High Court was sitting. The index to these in on-line.
On top of that, all the productions, i.e. interviews with those involved, maps, digrams, descriptions, etc., in the runup to the trial, is still there in Edinburgh at West Register House, and can make fascinating reading, but you need to visit WRH.
Lesser crimes, for the era in this thread, were tried in the Sheriff Court. Sadly, with very few exceptions, kept as an example of the records, the Sheriff Court records have not been kept.
ibi
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jackiekucer
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 2
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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dalbeth
« Reply #39 on: Thursday 12 February 09 13:07 UTC (UK) » |
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hi my parents r both buried at dalbeth in their own family plots but with no headstones how do l go bout finding out where they r buried my fathers family plot is thomas he died in jan 1982 n my mum's family plot is diamond she died in nov 1989, is dalbeth still closed or is it opened up again can u please help thanks
jackie
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Jessie Thomson
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 6
curious about the past
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Serious crimes were tried in the High Court of Justiciary, and these records still exist, except that most often you only get the name of the panel (accused), the alleged crime, the name of the judge, sometimes the names of the witnesses, the where and the when, and the verdict; but no detailed record of the trial, i.e. the evidence of and cross examination of the witnesses.
However, it's near certain that there will be a near verbatim report in a newspaper somewhere, depending on where the crime was committed, and where the High Court was sitting. The index to these in on-line.
On top of that, all the productions, i.e. interviews with those involved, maps, digrams, descriptions, etc., in the runup to the trial, is still there in Edinburgh at West Register House, and can make fascinating reading, but you need to visit WRH.
Lesser crimes, for the era in this thread, were tried in the Sheriff Court. Sadly, with very few exceptions, kept as an example of the records, the Sheriff Court records have not been kept.
ibi
I'd like to access the newspaper on-line index if you could point me in the right direction. William Thomson, the prisoner, was an inmate in 1881 and came from rural Aberdeenshire so the records would be in "The Aberdeen Journal". I guess he was a lesser criminal belonging in the Sheriff Court record arena - even with the help of "black cat" nothing could be found. However an on-line newspaper index could prove to be very fruitful.
Many thanks - Jessie Thomson
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flst
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 451
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Jessie,
If you telephone the headquarters of Aberdeenshire Library & Information Service,Meldrum Meg Way,Oldmeldrum on 01651 872707, they will be able to help. Very friendly staff will do a look up of the paper & send a photocopy of any relevant information. You can also visit in person & find out what information they may hold there.
flst
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TAYLOR, COBBAN, SCOTT, PATERSON, BARCLAY, DUNCAN, SKENE, SIM, WOOD, STEPHEN, ROSE, CUMINE, MORISON, GERRARD, PYPER, ANDERSON, FARQUHAR, BURNET, THOMSON, DAVIDSON, BIRNIE, STRACHAN, DEY, GERRIE, ROBERTSON, FINNIE, WYLLIE,STEPHEN,WILLOX,MICHIE,MARR,BRUCE, CLUBB,SLESSOR,CLARK, SIMPSON,HEPBURN,SINCLAIR,BEEDIE,FOWLIE, CLYNE,FINDLATER,JOHNSTON,BROCKIE,PARK, WATT,MACKIE,WALKER,YEATS,THIRD, BURD,EWAN,ARTHUR,AUCKLAND, MURDOCH,LOW,IRVINE,CHALMERS,BOYES, LYON,SMITH,ADIE,WATSON - ALL N.E.SCOTLAND.
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Jessie Thomson
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 6
curious about the past
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Dear flst,
Thanks very much for that information. I'll give them a try.
Jessie Thomson
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jackiesim18
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 3
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I also have an inmate in 1881 census and cant find out what she was in for. Her name was eliza fleming ms brown. can anyone help?
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