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Topic: GERMANY: Baker - from Nassau, Germany (Read 1383 times)
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Pysie
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 24
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I am trying to trace my great-grandfather's roots in Nassau, Germany.
The surname is 'Baker' but I understand this is an anglicised version and I don't know how to find out their original 'German' surname.
There were four brothers who settled in Worthing, Sussex. Their first appearance is in the 1871 census so I assume they arrived in England between 1861 and 1871. Their names are:-
Phillipp Bartholomew Baker b C1847
Johannes (John) Baker (my ggrandfather) b C1851
George Bonifacious Baker b C1853
Christian Baker b C1855
Censuses put their place of birth as Nassau, Germany, although Christian's place of birth is recorded in one census as (possibly) Wilsenroth.
They were all professional musicians.
They were Roman Catholic.
Their father - who probably stayed in Germany - is recorded on Johannes' marriage certificate as Joseph Baker, builder.
All four brothers are recorded in censuses as 'BS' (British subject?).
All except Christian married and died in England. (Christian disappeared from censuses. No death recorded so I assume he returned to Germany.)
Are there any passenger lists which might record the four brothers travelling together? Or how easy is it to obtain naturalization papers, given I don't know which surname to search? Or can I obtain birth details from a church in Wilsenroth?
Since I don't speak German, I'd be grateful for any help anyone can offer.
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« Last Edit: Friday 27 June 08 17:38 UTC (UK) by Berlin-Bob »
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Oldfield, Boreham, Smith, Seaton, (Middx, G London)
Baker (Middx & Brighton, from Nassau, Germany)
Pye (Middx from Exeter)
Street, Thelluson (Sussex)
Sisley (Kent)
Garbutt (Yorks)
Bowles (NSW Australia)
Smith!!!!! (Limpsfield, Surrey. and Sheffield, Yorks)
Holgate, Coop (Yorkshire)
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Berlin-Bob
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5687
by: My Daughter. Chatting to find her Roots !
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Hi Pysie,
You can see some topics on naturalisation here:
Topic: RootsChat Topics - Naturalisation and Internment
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,157691.0.html
which will give you an idea of how to do it, and what you might find.
A baker in german is BÄCKER, but BEEKER is pronounced Baker in german (near enough), or it could have been BECKER or BACKE or other variations.
Nassau is in Hesse - see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hessen-Nassau
No passenger list for Continental Europe to UK, so try the naturalisation "route" first - trying all the variations of BAKER.
good luck,
Bob
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Searching for Coleman, Moore, Kallnung in London; Margulies, Remenyi in E. Europe; Ancestors of Hessie Stevenson-Coleman-Baxter (Ireland, 1861) and, of course, any other ancestors for my web-site. All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk) |
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CaroleW
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 16686
Barney 1993-2005
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Hi
Looking at the IGI for Germany - their surname may possibly have been Becker or Bekker
If you put in Baker as a surname those are the 2 main options it comes up with. Nothing for your 4 brothers though
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Pysie
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 24
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Thanks for the info, Carole and Bob.
How do I seach for naturalization? Can I do it online these days? I can't get to Kew because I care for Mum full time. Johannes was her grandfather and she is desperate to know about her German background.
Thanks in anticipation,
Cathy
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Oldfield, Boreham, Smith, Seaton, (Middx, G London)
Baker (Middx & Brighton, from Nassau, Germany)
Pye (Middx from Exeter)
Street, Thelluson (Sussex)
Sisley (Kent)
Garbutt (Yorks)
Bowles (NSW Australia)
Smith!!!!! (Limpsfield, Surrey. and Sheffield, Yorks)
Holgate, Coop (Yorkshire)
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Pysie
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 24
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Thanks, Bob, I'll let you know how I get on.
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Oldfield, Boreham, Smith, Seaton, (Middx, G London)
Baker (Middx & Brighton, from Nassau, Germany)
Pye (Middx from Exeter)
Street, Thelluson (Sussex)
Sisley (Kent)
Garbutt (Yorks)
Bowles (NSW Australia)
Smith!!!!! (Limpsfield, Surrey. and Sheffield, Yorks)
Holgate, Coop (Yorkshire)
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Berlin-Bob
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5687
by: My Daughter. Chatting to find her Roots !
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Hi Pysie,
yesterday was "english night" in the german forum chatroom, so I threw "Wilsenroth." into the pot to see if anyone could come with some ideas:
"but wikipedia says today it's part of dornburg "
==> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dornburg_(Hessen)
:
"Königreich Preußen / Provinz Hessen-Nassau / Regierungsbezirk Wiesbaden / Landkreis Limburg -
that's from "gemeindeverzeichnis.de"
=> www.gemeindeverzeichnis.de
:
"there's a kinship book for wilsenroth "
"kinship?? "
"ortssippenbuch "
==> http://wiki-en.genealogy.net/FAQ_Local_Heritage_Book
and
==> http://www.v-weiss.de/ofbmeur-w.html
Wilsenroth/065/1982/1679-1800
O.A.: Ortssippenbuch Wilsenroth 1679-1800. o.A. 1982; ST Hessisches HStA Wiesbaden (361, Frickhofen 1-2)
I think this means that it is kept at the Hessisches Hauptstandesamt (Main Registry Office)
So a query to them, when you have a bit more data, might help.
Some Local Heritage Books (Ortssippenbücher OSB, or Orts Familien Bücher - OFB) are online,
http://www.online-ofb.de/index.html but not Wilsenroth 
regards,
Bob
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Searching for Coleman, Moore, Kallnung in London; Margulies, Remenyi in E. Europe; Ancestors of Hessie Stevenson-Coleman-Baxter (Ireland, 1861) and, of course, any other ancestors for my web-site. All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk) |
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mazzie74
RootsChat Member
Posts: 238
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Or there's these ones:-
Naturalisation papers: Backer, John Peter, from Felsberg, Hesse Cassel. Certificate 5233 issued 31 October 1866.
Nationality and Naturalisation: Becker, Johann Peter [known as Peter Baker], from Germany. Certificate A2564 issued 10 April 1878.
Nationality and Naturalisation: Becker, Johann Peter Ignatius, from Germany. Resident in London. Certificate A6842 issued 16 September 1891.
Nationality and Naturalisation: Becker, Philip, from Germany. Resident in Lambeth. Certificate A4182 issued 14 October 1884.
Nationality and Naturalisation: Bechtel, George Christopher, from Germany. Certificate A1669 issued 10 August 1875.
Nationality and Naturalisation: Bechtel, Christian, from Germany. Resident in London. Certificate A3227 issued 13 April 1880.
Nationality and Naturalisation: Becker, Christian Wilhelm, from Germany. Resident in Newport, Mon. Certificate 20613 issued 30 August 1911.
Nationality and Naturalisation: Becker, George Edward, from Germany. Resident in London. Certificate A3667 issued 4 April 1882.
Nationality and Naturalisation: Bakker, Johannes Georg, from Germany. Resident in Ipswich. Certificate 16551 issued 5 January 1907.
Darin.
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Mazzei/Mazzie - Stazzema (ITA); Cardiff; Bristol.
Bernardi - Tuscany (ITA); Cardiff; Boston (MA);
O'Keefe/O'Keeffe - Cardiff.
Svombo - Cardiff; London.
Mahoney - Newport; Cardiff.
Bugeja - Malta.
Godden - Faversham; London; Northumberland.
Harris - Deal; Gillingham.
Morris - Ramsgate; St. Lawrence; Gillingham.
Stupples - Broadstairs; Ramsgate.
Lamb - Elswick; Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
Todd - Berwick; Burradon; Dudley (NBL).
Houston - Sunderland.
Gibson - East Holywell; Cramlington (NBL)
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Pysie
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 24
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Hi, Darin and Bob,
Thanks for all the tips.
Sorry to be a damp squid, Darin, but Christian disappeared completely from all British censuses and BMD records after 1871. I can only assume that, being 'the baby', he went back to Germany. I'm not too worried about his story as it is his brother, Johannes, who is my ancestor. There is no evidence that Christian was Christian 'W' Baker, and certainly no evidence he had any contact with Wales. But who knows?
I checked out 'Ebbecke' on familysearch but it seems there is no obvious connection.
I have searched all the British records over seven years and can discount any similar names of Bakers born in Germany who lived in London or anywhere else outside of Sussex. Sorry, but my brothers are not on your list.
The names of the four brothers are quite specific - as listed in my original message - and, as far as I know, they only ever lived in the Worthing/Brighton area of Sussex. I am sure their address at the time of naturalisation would have been 'Worthing' or 'Sussex'.
Johannes, Phillipp and George all married shortly after their arrival in England and raised families in the Worthing/Brighton area. I can find no other conection with any other part of Britain.
I have trawled throught he websites you sent, Bob, (very frustrating!!!) and I have not found any trace of the brothers. (If only I spoke German!!!)
Wilsenthrop might be a red herring but it is all I have to go on. It is a name of a village in Nassau mentioned just once in a census return by Christian (or Phillipp? - I can't remember which without checking). Of course, if Christian/Phillipp was born in Wisenthrop, there is no guarantee the other brothers were born there, too. But it may be a start so I shall contact the registry and the Catholic church in Dornburg (the RC parich church of Wilsenthriop?).
I had hoped to find the brothers recorded together on a ship or something so I might learn their original German surname. But, whatever. I shall keep searching ..... .
Of course, I suppose it its just possible they were born in Gernamy of British parents with the name Baker ..... ? But even then, I can find no trace.
Thanks for your help,
Cathy
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Oldfield, Boreham, Smith, Seaton, (Middx, G London)
Baker (Middx & Brighton, from Nassau, Germany)
Pye (Middx from Exeter)
Street, Thelluson (Sussex)
Sisley (Kent)
Garbutt (Yorks)
Bowles (NSW Australia)
Smith!!!!! (Limpsfield, Surrey. and Sheffield, Yorks)
Holgate, Coop (Yorkshire)
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Pysie
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 24
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Bob - for anyone interested in tracing family history in the old Nassau duchy, this link might be of use.
http://www.davidrumsey.com/maps1318.html
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Oldfield, Boreham, Smith, Seaton, (Middx, G London)
Baker (Middx & Brighton, from Nassau, Germany)
Pye (Middx from Exeter)
Street, Thelluson (Sussex)
Sisley (Kent)
Garbutt (Yorks)
Bowles (NSW Australia)
Smith!!!!! (Limpsfield, Surrey. and Sheffield, Yorks)
Holgate, Coop (Yorkshire)
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Rena
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 897
James McCarthy
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Hi there,
I've looked to see if your brothers could have left their homeland without permission, unfortunately of the 45 pages of "Becker" your family is not yet noted on http://aidaonline.niedersachsen.de/
and perhaps made their way to Denmark - unfortunately they're not on any passenger list:
http://personal.inet.fi/yhdistys/centralin/swe/emi_ref.htm
nor are they on any Norwegian passenger list:-
http://www.norwayheritage.com/
I've looked in the Morman catalogue and searched for keyword "Wilsenroth, but it appears that there's only an Ev. Lutheran film available for Wilsenroth giving births/geburten up to the year 1851. (Evangelische Kirche Wilsenroth (Kr. Limburg). My own ancestors were Catholic, being confirmed in a catholic church but baptised in the nearby Ev. Lutheran church.
However Wilsenroth also appeared as being included in the Catholic church records for Frickhofen (Katholische Kirche Frickhofen (Kr. Limburg)). Unfortunately on the surface the dates only cover the earlier generations and not the generation you're looking for.
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/fhlcatalog/
When I failed to find film of my Kingdom of Hannover Catholic branch I emailed the Catholic archives and received the information at a cost of £30 Sterling, from that start I could then hire earlier films for a fraction of the cost.
Good Luck,
Rena
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Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy
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Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar
Ross, Urray:Mackenzie
Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell
Perthshire: Brown Ferguson
Wales: McCarthy, Thomas
England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells
Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke
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Pysie
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 24
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Thanks for trying, everyone. I've had no luck tracing natrulaisation papers, and no luck on the sites you all mentioned.
I think I shall have to contact the Catholic archives, or get a German-speaking friend to help out. I think I remember a web-site which listed the correct offices to contact for Frickhofen RC and Dornburg births. (Familysearch? Rootsweb? Cindy's List?- I'll let you know when I find it again.)
RENA -
I note you have Pye, Munford and Smith in your list of names. So do I!!!Have you seen my names? Munford is not there - yet - but my daughter recently married a Munford!!!! Which part of the country do your Pyes, Smiths and Munfords come from?
Cathy
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Oldfield, Boreham, Smith, Seaton, (Middx, G London)
Baker (Middx & Brighton, from Nassau, Germany)
Pye (Middx from Exeter)
Street, Thelluson (Sussex)
Sisley (Kent)
Garbutt (Yorks)
Bowles (NSW Australia)
Smith!!!!! (Limpsfield, Surrey. and Sheffield, Yorks)
Holgate, Coop (Yorkshire)
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Baker Family
RootsChat Pioneer
Posts: 1
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Greetings from Canada.! I am the Great Granddaughter of George Boniface Baker b. Germany 1853 and lived in Worthing, Sussex, England. Wow, have we made a connection here! I'm new at the genealogy business but also made an incredible connection with Phillip Baker's Great Grandson & his family last week. George Baker was a musician & composer (violin & piano) and was married to my Great Grandma Harriet Naomi Grevatt. He died in England in his early 40's and GG H. Naomi came to Canada with her 4 children. According to my new found cousins in England, Christian never married and never left England, living with his Mother, Renee Baker. Phillip had 6-7 children and lived out his life in Worthing. Later in his life, he played piano at the Olympic theatre. All four brothers played in a band called "The Rhine Band" and played at the Worthing bandstand. In fact, I found a reference in Oscar Wilde's writings stating that the Rhine Band brought a bit of culture to Worthing. They were apparently born in the Black Forest area of Germany and according to Renee Baker's notes (she was in her mid 80's at the time of writing), the name was originally BAIKER. I had been on the trail of Beckers but I am confident in this new found information. In the past week, I have received several fabulous pictures of the Baker Boys, one or two I believe containing Johannes (John) Baker. I was so excited when I googled and found this posting that I signed up and didn't read the instructions for beginners, etc. Hope I haven't overstepped any of the boundaries here! Cathy, I am extremely interested in hearing back from you or anyone else on this forum, related to our Baker/Baiker ancestors. Regards from Canada, Ann
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