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Topic: Trail/Dowie - Scoonie (Read 734 times)
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bones58
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Posts: 35
The Garden of England
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Hi,
I have James Trail marrying Elizabeth Dowie in Kettle on 3rd December 1790.
There is also a marriage listed in Scoonie for the 15th November 1790. I'm not sure if this was actually a marriage or just notice of the contract to marry, but
the marriage entry for Kettle states that they were contracted to marriage on 12th November.
My problem is that the Scoonie entry names the groom as WILLIAM Trail and not James!! Was this a mistake or am I looking for a James William or a William James 
I'm trying to take the family back further but am not having much luck !!
Bones 
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Coast-Kent, Head-Kent, Brigden-Kent,Cowan-Norfolk,Whiting-Norfolk, Nutt-Bucks, Stannett-Bucks, Trail-Fife, Galbally- London, Halloran-Bermondsey, Messenger-Bermondsey
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bones58
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The Garden of England
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Hi Diddy,
I don't think James took William's place because the marriage entry for James and Elizabeth in Kettle clearly states that the marriage was contracted on 12th November.
The entry in Scoonie is I think also a contract to marriage and not an actual marriage. It's just the name of William that threw me.
James and Elizabeth are proving very difficult to trace backwards in time. I know that they had at least four children: Isabel, James, David and Thomas, but I can't find any birth or death details for James and Elizabeth.
I've tried using the Scottish naming system ie. oldest son named after paternal grandfather, but am still drawing blanks.
There is a gap of two to three years between each of the children so there is a possibility that there are more and that James wasn't the oldest son!!
Bones
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Coast-Kent, Head-Kent, Brigden-Kent,Cowan-Norfolk,Whiting-Norfolk, Nutt-Bucks, Stannett-Bucks, Trail-Fife, Galbally- London, Halloran-Bermondsey, Messenger-Bermondsey
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tommacgregor
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1237
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello Bones,
I don't want to butt in with your communication with my very good friend, Diddymiller, but I'm sure that you wont mind since it concerns the name DOWIE.
When I saw the contents of your exchanges with Diddy, it jangled a few bells, especially as I had already seen the mention of Scoonie in Fife as well.
On my recent posting on the Hepburn and Connections Thread on the Fife Board, I had made mention of Elizabeth Dowie Hepburn and how she married David Ramsay on the 23rd February, 1866 at Scoonie in Fife. They settled in Scoonie and had their kids there, i.e. John, Arnot, Janet and Robert.
That middle name of Elizabeth, DOWIE, makes me wonder who exactly Elizabeth was named after, and whether it would be worth your while to follow that possible lead up.
Again, apologies if I am interrupting - only trying to help!
Best wishes to you and yours,
Tom.
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JAP
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Hi Bones,
Just some quick questions to bring this thread up to date 
Have you now viewed the actual Scoonie entry?
Was it just a proclamation of banns or was there mention of an actual marriage?
And did it definitely say William or might that have been an error?
Best regards,
JAP
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Scotland - HALL, HARLEY, LOCHTY/LOCHTIE/LOUGHTIE/LOUGHTY (very rare), MCLAUSE/MCLAWS/MCILHOSE/HOSE (quite rare and many very variable spellings - close to 100 to date), PHILP/PHILIP, VASSIE; Ireland - BOURKE/BURKE, DONOHUE (many spellings), DOOLEY, KINSELLA, MAXWELL, OSBORNE, RAFFERTY, STA(U)NTON, SULLIVAN; England - BAYES, BROWNELL, DALTON, FREEMAN, HACKING, PIERCY, SIDDLE, SWIFT, SULLIVAN, TINK(L)ER, TRIPPIT. Any spellings and many other names!
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bones58
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The Garden of England
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Hi JAP and Tommy,
The Scoonie entry says:
"Contracted William Trail in this parish and Eliz Dowie in parish of Kings Kettle"
The Kettle entry says:
" November 12th were matrimonially contracted James Trail in the parish of Scoonie and Elizabeth Dowie in this parish, they were regularly proclaimed, no objections offered and married on the 3rd December"
I'm sure the name William in the Scoonie entry is a mistake. The IGI lists the children of James and Elizabeth but not William and Elizabeth.
As I mentioned in my earlier post, trying to take this family further back is proving very difficult.
Tom,
I'm open to any help or suggestions that might help me with my research.
I am slowly reading through your posts and appreciate that you have a great knowledge of the area, so your views are very welcome.
Bones
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Coast-Kent, Head-Kent, Brigden-Kent,Cowan-Norfolk,Whiting-Norfolk, Nutt-Bucks, Stannett-Bucks, Trail-Fife, Galbally- London, Halloran-Bermondsey, Messenger-Bermondsey
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tommacgregor
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Bones,
Many thanks for your kind comments, they are greatly appreciated. As you read through the postings, you will probably come across a few individuals that will be of interest to you. I am always more than happy to work with other researchers, especially if we are dealing with Fife - my birthplace.
My very best wishes to you and yours.
Tom.
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trish251
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Hi Bones
Moderator comment: edited
I would agree with your original thought that the parish priest in Scoonie mistook the name of the Groom. When you checked the parish entries did you look at nearby entries? Often the registers were written up some time after the event and either mistranscribed from notes or not remembered correctly.
Do you have Elizabeth back any further? I have folks from Kettle that I traced back to a marriage in 1730. I have them back a little further but in the parish of Ceres (perchance it is a William )
Trish
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« Last Edit: Friday 25 July 08 12:32 BST (UK) by Arranroots »
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JAP
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Hi Bones,
Thanks for the prompt replies to my queries - that brought us nicely up to date. Certainly,
as Trish says, it does look as though the name in the Scoonie register is just an error.
Incidentally, DOWIE (including variant spellings) was not an uncommon name in Fife.
And Hugh Wallis's middle name site lists quite a few people with the middle name of Dowie
(including Elisabeth Dowie HEPBURN b 1835 in Abbotshall).
However, given that her name has been introduced into this thread, I had a quick dash
round the IGI. It looks to me (I don't guarantee this as it was a very quick look) that
Elisabeth's mother's name was Janet BROWN; that Janet BROWN was probably the
one b 1808 in Kirkcaldy, parents Alexander BROWN & Betty DOWIE; and that
Betty DOWIE was probably the one b 1783 in Kirkcaldy, parents George DOWIE
& Janet MILL/MILN. So if I'm right, that already takes us back to before your 1790 marriage ...
All the best,
JAP
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Scotland - HALL, HARLEY, LOCHTY/LOCHTIE/LOUGHTIE/LOUGHTY (very rare), MCLAUSE/MCLAWS/MCILHOSE/HOSE (quite rare and many very variable spellings - close to 100 to date), PHILP/PHILIP, VASSIE; Ireland - BOURKE/BURKE, DONOHUE (many spellings), DOOLEY, KINSELLA, MAXWELL, OSBORNE, RAFFERTY, STA(U)NTON, SULLIVAN; England - BAYES, BROWNELL, DALTON, FREEMAN, HACKING, PIERCY, SIDDLE, SWIFT, SULLIVAN, TINK(L)ER, TRIPPIT. Any spellings and many other names!
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bones58
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Posts: 35
The Garden of England
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Hi All,
The nearest match for Elizabeth that I can find, is for a christening in Scoonie on 16th March 1760 to parents David Dowie and Elizabeth Reeky. This would have made her 30 at the time of marriage !!
As far as I can tell (taken from the IGI) James and Elizabeth had the following children:
Isabel b.11/10/1791
James b.25/4/1794
Elizabeth b.25/12/1795
David b.8/9/1798
Thomas b.2/8/1800
Using the Scottish naming system as I understand it , Elizabeth and David would have been named after their maternal grandparents, but as there is quite a gap between some of the children I wonder if there are some missing
that have not been recorded in the parish records.
As for James, I have been unable to find a match that would connect with the children's names.
Bones
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Coast-Kent, Head-Kent, Brigden-Kent,Cowan-Norfolk,Whiting-Norfolk, Nutt-Bucks, Stannett-Bucks, Trail-Fife, Galbally- London, Halloran-Bermondsey, Messenger-Bermondsey
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JAP
RootsChat Marquessate
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Hello again Bones,
References to threads which set out Scottish naming patterns can be found in the (very useful) RootsChat Lexicon of Genealogical Terms and Abbreviations at:
http://surname.rootschat.com/lexicon/index.php
These threads are indexed in the Lexicon under 'Naming Patterns'.
IF your family had adhered to the Scottish naming patterns, then the mother of Elizabeth DOWIE later TRAIL would have been Isabel - the 'standard' pattern was that the 1st daughter was named after the maternal grandmother.
However, many many families did not follow the patterns. Another trap to bear in mind is that (just to take one example) both the paternal and maternal grandfathers and/or grandmothers might have had the same given name!
Incidentally, I notice that the 1795 christening for Elizabeth TRAIL is an LDS member submission ...
I wish you well with your continuing search. Unfortunately, it might not be possible to go further back - many children were not baptized, many church records have not survived or have not been indexed, etc, etc.
Good luck,
JAP
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Scotland - HALL, HARLEY, LOCHTY/LOCHTIE/LOUGHTIE/LOUGHTY (very rare), MCLAUSE/MCLAWS/MCILHOSE/HOSE (quite rare and many very variable spellings - close to 100 to date), PHILP/PHILIP, VASSIE; Ireland - BOURKE/BURKE, DONOHUE (many spellings), DOOLEY, KINSELLA, MAXWELL, OSBORNE, RAFFERTY, STA(U)NTON, SULLIVAN; England - BAYES, BROWNELL, DALTON, FREEMAN, HACKING, PIERCY, SIDDLE, SWIFT, SULLIVAN, TINK(L)ER, TRIPPIT. Any spellings and many other names!
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bones58
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Posts: 35
The Garden of England
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Hello JAP,
I wasn't convinced that I had found the right family for Elizabeth but it was the nearest possibility!!
I had noticed that the christening for Elizabeth was a submitted entry, so I am wary of its accuracy, but haven't yet found a way to verify it.
Thanks for the link, it may give me a clearer understanding of the system.
Bones
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sancti
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Posts: 1140
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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The OPR's on SP dont have any baptisms to William Trail and Elzabeth Dowie
They have 4 records for James Trail and Elizabeth Dowie all in Scoonie
11/10/1791 TRAIL ISABEL daur of JAMES TRAIL and ELIZABETH DOWIE at Scoonie (Fife)
27/04/1794 TRAIL JAMES son of JAMES TRAIL and ELIZABETH DOWIE at Scoonie (Fife)
08/09/1798 TRAIL DAVID son of JAMES TRAIL and ELIZABETH DOWIE at Scoonie (Fife)
10/08/1800 TRAIL THOMAS son of JAMES TRAIL and ELIZABETH DOWIE at Scoonie (Fife) /FIFE
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sancti
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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There is 1 census record for a James Trail with 2nd named person Elizabeth on the 1841 census
1841 TRAIL JAMES Male aged 75 at FRASERBURGH /ABERDEEN
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trish251
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1841 Scotland (I think most of) is on Freecen - the only James I see for Fraserburgh
Details are
Address: Upper Burntack
TRAIL James 75 Farmer
TRAIL Mary 70
TRAIL Alexander 25
TRAIL Mary 13 Female Servant
SINCLAIR William 13 Ag Lab
All born in County
http://www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
No Elizabeth? Does the 2nd named person relate to household or page on SP?
Trish
(PS the other transcription I have access to, seems to have no sign of James that I can find  - but then I found William Sinclair & the Trail family are hiding as Frail )
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Trail_Marriage.jpg