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Topic: "Heir Hunters" (Read 18713 times)
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FraserandFraser
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 2
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Obviously an estate cant be distributed until the full existent of a the family is known, and there are times when this can be a very drawn out process, but once the full extent is known then we can calculate the exact share each beneficiary is entitled to. So it makes no difference who an heir is represented by or even if they can do the work themselves.
With these cases currently a claim of a single heir is lodged with the TS however you only have to prove that the possible heir has greater entitlement than the crown. That means that at no time do you have to prove the full extent of the family or even that you have found the closest heir. It is only when the oath is sworn at probate that you have to discuss the make up of the family, to the best of your knowledge at the time.
This being the case you can have a single family that is represented by more than 1 firm of genealogists, some heirs doing it them self and some doing nothing hoping it will all be sorted out.
Having said that it makes no difference who or if any one represents an heir there are other point that must be said at this time.
I have no objection in anyone doing it themselves, especially when there is a close relationship and the heir knew the deceased, some times we are only contacting heirs knowing that it is likely they will go by themselves, because we have done the research and there is an off chance we may recover some costs, remember at the start of a case there is no way of knowing what degree of heir we will find. I do however think we are a little hard done by if we have done all the work in finding the heir only to miss out because when the heir really didn't know the deceased.
There are huge differences between different firms of genealogists, some will only work the easy, profitable stems of a family and sign contracts at a very low % and then hope that no one does the research on the other stems so they can pick up an extras fee for writing a report.
There is also a huge level of service difference between F&F and most of our competitors. We are luck and have a big office with the support staff to make sure heirs are kept fully up to date, smaller firms some times have to make calls from toilets have no access to there files and really are hoping that the bigger firms are doing all the real work so there clients are there to come in at a later date.
Fees are never talked about on Heir Hunters because it is in our contract, with the producers. The main reason for this is because we don't want to set a precedents, every case is different and thus the fees are very different. I have seen fees of between 1% and 40% however they represent different cases entirely. A low fee i.e. one that is between 1 and 5% is only offered by very few firms they are the ones hoping to put in charges in at later dates for other things and usually when they are behind another firm in contacting an heir. Fees between 5% and 10% are again trying to undercut another firms fees because the firm is second of third to an heir, or if the estate is very big or the heir very close the the dec and thus the research is very easy. Standard fees are between 10% to 1/3 on English cases depending on a few factors, and up to 40% on US cases this is because the fee pays for more than just the genealogist in the states, because there legal system is a lot more complicated attorneys have to be instructed and the fee covers there cost as well. VAT is also payable (at the date the contract was signed, not when it is paid out).
Hope I have answered a few questions and remember that if you do get approached by one of us the cheapest fee is not always the best and never pay upfront.
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Nick29
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2904
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Thanks for the frank answers, Neil. You must have to turn over a lot of cases every week to make a profit, with the costs of staff wages for all the people in your office, and the cost of having an office in Central London, which I suppose has to be a "must" in your line of work.
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Best Wishes, Nick. Research interests: Field - Luton & Islington Hole - Somerset, Suffolk & Surrey Farnish, Parker, Cattermole, Last, Wasp, Church - Suffolk Lewin/Lowin/Lowen - Hertfordhire Martin - Eltham & Greenwich, Kent (London) Stead - Greenwich, London (Kent) & Maidstone Wood - Hertfordshire Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Deb D
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 770
I'm not over 40 ... I'm 39.95 plus tax!
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Quote from: Deb D on Thursday 02 July 09 21:57 BST (UK)
Hi, I'm wondering if I can (probably) be a pest, and ask ...
My Gt-gt-grandfather left his estate to be divided between his three children; two daughters, who never married ... and my gt-grandfather who had emigrated to Australia. The will stated that gt-grandfather's share would be waiting for him when he returned to England ... but having married, and fathered a huge brood of children, he never did return to England.
Obviously, my question is ... what would have happened to his third share of his father's estate? Could my late grandmother's tales of "money in Chancery" have any basis in fact?
You need to find out who was the executor of the will - you should be able to find this out from the UK Probate Office. It's quite possible that the money is still being held by a solicitor, and this will have been attracting interest, so could well be a tidy amount.
Many thanks for this advice, ... I have a copy of the will (probate granted Feb 1896), which names all three children (including his son "on his return to England") as his Executors. Doesn't help much, does it?
Obviously the sisters couldn't have just lived off their savings while they were waiting for their brother to return (unmarried daughters of a surgeon, they were always just provided for, and probably hadn't previously needed to have personal savings as such), so I have to assume there was some sort of arrangement made. Any idea where I'd find any record of this, if it wasn't just in a letter from the brother?
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I live in Sydney, Australia, and I'm researching: -
Powell
Tatham
Dunbar
Dixon
Mackwood
Kinnear
Mitchell
Morgan
Delves
Anderson
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Nick29
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2904
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I hadn't realised that all this happened so long ago. This page from the National Archives should tell you all you need to know. If the money had been held in trust by the other two children, then I suppose you could trace their successors, and see if they know anything, but I wouldn't like to make a bet on your chances of success after all this time. If there were no successors of the other two children, the money would have gone to the state if they didn't leave it in their wills.
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Best Wishes, Nick. Research interests: Field - Luton & Islington Hole - Somerset, Suffolk & Surrey Farnish, Parker, Cattermole, Last, Wasp, Church - Suffolk Lewin/Lowin/Lowen - Hertfordhire Martin - Eltham & Greenwich, Kent (London) Stead - Greenwich, London (Kent) & Maidstone Wood - Hertfordshire Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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lyla
RootsChat Member
Posts: 113
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On this morning's program I think that they said there are currently over 3000 unclaimed estates however the bona vacantia list only has a small number of those. Is there somewhere that the full list can be viewed?
If I could find one of my family research surnames on the list I'd quite like to have a go at solving one for myself.
Lyla
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LONDON: Flewers/Fluers, Pullen, Leary, Griffiths, Wood, Mitchell. HERTS: Barker, Bates, Dickens, Hutchins, Slater, King, Kent, Overill, Peters. BEDS/BUCKS: Whitbread, Horley, Seabrook, Horn(e), Jenkins, Woodward. BERKS/HAMPS: Gibson, Tigg, Boames, Parker SUFFOLK: Mason, Mott, Suttle, Twitchett, Everard, Feveryar, Riches, Clarke, Harper, Potter, Brinkley. BRISTOL: Mitchell, Pullen. CLACKMANNANSHIRE/FIFE, Keir, Sym(e), Watson, GLASGOW/IRELAND: Collins, Brown, Paterson. IRELAND: Leary, Collins
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smeni
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 82
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Watching this morning's programme, I wondered if the Land Registry was ever researched to see who owned a property - I know not every property is registered there, but it could be a useful way of ascertaining ownership.
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Eidman, Eidmann, Eidmans - London, Cardiff, Somerset
Payne - London, Cardiff, Somerset
Scott - Glasgow, Edinburgh, Leith
Lawrence - Edinburgh, Leith
Oriel - Pembrokeshire, Carmarthenshire, Glamorganshire
Hobbs, Huggins - Gloucester
Hurlow, Protheroe - Pembrokeshire
McLeod, Dallison
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kooky
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1475
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I enjoyed this morning's programme, especially where a beneficiary did some research herself into her benefactor's life. The war service information was particularly interesting.
Kooky
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Clulo - Staffs.,Warwickshire, Lancs.1780 -1950
Fisher- Nafferton,Hull, Manchester.1770-1840-1950
Kane&McNeill,Forkhill, Armagh and Glasgow,Bray Dublin.1850s -1920
Boshell and Dowzard- Dublin, 1840s -1911
Kay/Bremner Edinburgh 1800 - 1841.Kay Staffs.& Lancs1842 -1901
Kay - Newcastle on Tyne 1780-1861
Swindell[s], Marple & Manchester 1900->
Makinson, M/c & Prestwich 1870 ->
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Nick29
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2904
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If an inheritance has gone unclaimed for years, and heir hunter companies have failed to find heirs, I think it's safe to say that a genealogist is unlikley to find any, because heir hunters will have done all the paper chasing that it's possible to do. The only way these sort of cases is likely ever be solved (if indeed there is a solution) is if someone who knew the deceased or is related to the deceased comes forward.
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Best Wishes, Nick. Research interests: Field - Luton & Islington Hole - Somerset, Suffolk & Surrey Farnish, Parker, Cattermole, Last, Wasp, Church - Suffolk Lewin/Lowin/Lowen - Hertfordhire Martin - Eltham & Greenwich, Kent (London) Stead - Greenwich, London (Kent) & Maidstone Wood - Hertfordshire Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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FraserandFraser
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 2
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Nick,
Although that is almost certainly correct with the larger cases, the smaller ones bellow £25-30k may have never been worked, however most have.Cases bellow £10k are only very occasionally worked. There is a chance that they could be solved easily! in some cases. I know that on the back of HH we have looked at 2 cases a £30k one that was never worked and an £8k one both we found nephews or nieces inside 1 hour of research.
The small cases just don't make financial scene for us to look at.
The bigger cases that remained unclaimed are usually because there are no legal heirs i.e. first cousins, however in a very few cases we are just missing people who may have travelled over seas or something and we just cant find them, however with more and more records being released it is possible that any could be solved.
Neil
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Mk2_Zephyr
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1468
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Sorry if its been covered,
but how come in a case (Roy REED ?) his sister got sfa because she had been adopted out ?
Sorry its so old, we just the first series three weeks ago down here (NZ)
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Nick29
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2904
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Nick,
Although that is almost certainly correct with the larger cases, the smaller ones bellow £25-30k may have never been worked, however most have.Cases bellow £10k are only very occasionally worked. There is a chance that they could be solved easily! in some cases. I know that on the back of HH we have looked at 2 cases a £30k one that was never worked and an £8k one both we found nephews or nieces inside 1 hour of research.
The small cases just don't make financial scene for us to look at.
The bigger cases that remained unclaimed are usually because there are no legal heirs i.e. first cousins, however in a very few cases we are just missing people who may have travelled over seas or something and we just cant find them, however with more and more records being released it is possible that any could be solved.
Neil
Wow ! I think you may have started a scramble, Neil ! 
Incidentally, my own inheritance claim seems to be almost at an end. We're just waiting for the cheque.
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Best Wishes, Nick. Research interests: Field - Luton & Islington Hole - Somerset, Suffolk & Surrey Farnish, Parker, Cattermole, Last, Wasp, Church - Suffolk Lewin/Lowin/Lowen - Hertfordhire Martin - Eltham & Greenwich, Kent (London) Stead - Greenwich, London (Kent) & Maidstone Wood - Hertfordshire Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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