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Topic: Birth - Jersey c. 1816 Eliza Amelia Tanner (Read 667 times)
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Helen B C
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 7
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I am looking for birth/christening information for Eliza Amelia Tanner who was born to Esther Ramier and Joseph Tanner on Jersey c. 1816.
Would very much appreciate any help.
Thanks kindly
Helen
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Hill
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 574
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Helen
Unless I've missed it, I couldn't see a birth for EAT. I searched 10 years either side.
I did however find Joshua Tanner, born 2nd Dec 1808, baptised 11th Dec 1808, parents Joseph Tanner HMR Staff Corp and Esther Ramier. God-parents were Edward Jas Estur and Eliz Le Bas his wife. This was in the Parish of St Brelade.
Then in Trinity, William, parents Joseph and Esther Tanner, God-parents Robert Stevenson, Frances Innes and Marie Cooper.
Stewart
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Helen B C
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 7
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Stewart
I can't thank you enough for searching Eliza Amelia Tanner's birth/baptism. We have always believed she was born on Jersey as do her descendants (they contributed this information to the local archives where she lived in Canada).
EAT's parents are my ggg grandparents, through a son who was born in England.
This couple apparently married Nov 14, 1808, so they sure didn't waste any time producing a family ! Actually I wondered why I couldn't find any births between the marriage and the documented birth of a son in 1813 at Hythe Kent where the father was stationed. The father spent a great deal of time out of the country with the Royal Staff Corps and I concluded this might have contributed to the considerable gap. You can't imagine how very grateful I am for this additional information.
Following his 1826 retirement from the RSC, the couple, with their children, settled briefly in Kendal, Westmorland, his birthplace, then emigrated to Canada sometime between 1831 and 1845.
Your information has certainly filled in some gaps for me and it's greatly appreciated. By the way - do you the date of Wm's birth ?
Thanks again,
Helen
PS - do you have ready access to records. I was given Esther Ramier's parents as Jean Ramier and Marie Pallier, but have not been able to verify this.
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Hill
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 574
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Helen
Re William's birth I'm afraid I don't have the birth date. Generally, the Parish Church Records only have the baptism date. You struck lucky with Joshua that they had also written in the birth date.
As regards record access, I live about a mile from the Archive Centre and pass it several times a day. I can look to see if I can find Esther's parents.
Stewart
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Helen B C
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 7
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Stewart,
"...Re William's birth I'm afraid I don't have the birth date. Generally, the Parish Church Records only have the baptism date....."
I had just wondered if there was year mentioned.
"....I can look to see if I can find Esther's parents....."
How fortunate you are to live nearby the archives and have access to their material.......and certainly I'm very fortunate that you are able to provide me the Tanner/Ramier information. Thank you again - it's very much appreciated
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Hill
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 574
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Helen
First an apology. I missed off the baptism date for William Tanner which was 10th January 1811.
Unfortunately I have not been able to confirm that Esther's parents were Jean Ramier and Marie Pallier as I can't find her baptism. Neither for that matter can I find a marriage for Jean and Marie.
However I have found the following children of Jean and Marie which may prove to be useful. They were all baptised in St Brelades
17th April 1793 William, son of Jean Ramier and Marie Pallic (GP William Brine Junior and Esther Anne Le Feuvre his wife)
19th July 1795 Pierre son of Jean Ramier and Marie Pellic (note spelling) (GP Jean Ramier and Elizabeth Le Cras)
9th September 1798 Jacques son of Jean Ramier and Marie Pallic (GP Pierre Galliene and Elizabeth Le Maitre wife of Jacques Le Cras)
Then on 28th April 1805 in St Brelade the death of Marie Pallie, wife of Jean Ramier, is recorded.
Jean I guess then re-married, although I can't find a record. They had two more children in St Brelade.
27th October 1816 John Peter (born 12th October 1816) to Jean Ramier and Jeanne Ozane (GP Pierre Ozane and Marie his sister)
21st January 1818 Francois (b 13th January 1818) to Jean Ramier and Jeanne Ozane (GP Francis Bisson and Rachel Ozane).
That will give you something to think about!
Stewart
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Helen B C
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 7
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks for all the information - as you say it will indeed give me something to think about
I sure do worry about the accuracy of information that has been passed on to me in bits and pieces 3rd or 4th hand and as I suspected there may be some discrepancies in that which I had previously received.
I do have William (1793), Pierre (1795) and Jacques (1798) that you have found, in my record as well as younger siblings of Esther (1796- my estimate based on 1871 Cdn census) and Jean (1788-received 3rd hand).
Also passed on to me was a 31 Oct 1785 , St Helier marriage, for a Jean Ramier and Marie Pallier.
At first glance it would make some sense that Jean & Marie would produce some children between a 1785 marriage and William in 1793.
I also have some notes about Jean remarrying but wife's name not given
although there was some speculation that her surname may have been Spinser.
It was noted that they had the following children:
Francois abt. 1821 (could be the 1818 Francois that you identified)
Jean abt. 1825 (could be the John Peter 1816 fellow you identified)
Eliza abt. 1823
Since I have laid out all this Ramier/Pailler information here, I might as well add what little else I have just in case someone else on the forum is researching this same family -
Jean Ramier is said to be the son of Claude Ramier and Sara Bruton who were said to be married about 1766, the same years as Jean Ramier was born.
Thank you very kindly, Stewart, for all your help.
Cheerio
Helen
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Hill
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 574
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi again
I've been down at the library of the Societe Jersaise this morning doing some research. Now you would think that the Archive Centre would have all the available records but this is not the case. Many people have left things to the Societe which existed long before the Archive Cenrte so it's always good to check both places. Researching is also not helped by not being computerised, so you are left with trawling through type written sheets which were created about 30 years ago!
I can therefore now confirm that Jean and Marie were indeed married in St Helier Church on 31st October 1785.
I can also tell you that Claude Ramier and Sara Bruton had the following children:
Jean - 2nd November 1766
Jeanne - 23rd August 1769
Susanne - 2nd December 1772
Philippe - 8th September 1781
Jean Ramier and Jean Ozanne (note different spelling of surname) had 3 more children in St Lawrence:
Elizabeth - 17th November 1823
Anne - 13th February 1825
Jean Matthieu - 8th July 1827
.. and finally, still no sign of a baptism for Esther. However I have discovered that there are a number of records from the St Brelade Parish Record missing from around 1700 - 1800. They are being discovered by comparing the copy at the Parish with that at the Registrar, but the current list stops at the letter K.
Stewart
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Helen B C
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 7
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Oh, my word, Stewart, I am just so very happy to have all these confirmations and thank you so much for all your time and trouble !
All the best
Helen
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Helen B C
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 7
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi again Stewart
Would you happen to know if parents are shown on circa 1800 marriage records ?
Thanks
Helen
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Hill
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 574
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Morning
Yes, in the majority of cases.
Stewart
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Janeada
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 68
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Helen B.C.
I have read your thread with some interest as I too have an ancestor whose birth place is given as Jersey, Channel Islands on three English censuses 1851, 1861 and 1871. Her maiden name was Mary Tanner and she was born c 1811 Although she has the name Ellen on the 1861 census the family that surround her make it plain that this is the same person. She married Thomas Fisher in December 1827 at the parish church in Kendal, Westmorland. They raised twelve children. Mary died in 1872 in Kendal. Her husband died in Preston, Lancashire in 1891 having lived with his daughter Mary Crossfield for a number of years.
I have always wondered how a young woman not much more than a child could get from Jersey to Kendal and there be no sign of a family of origin for her. Is it possible that my Mary Tanner is related to your Tanner family?
Janeada
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CLARKE in Furness, Lancashire, Cumberland & Isle of Man, PARK in Furness, Lancashire, CHARNOCK in Furness, Lancashire, ASHBURNER in Furness, Lancashire, FISHER in Westmorland & Lancashire (& Yorkshire), HIRD in Westmorland & Lancashire, JACKSON in Cumberland, SIM in Cumberland, WING in Lincolnshire, COOK in Nottinghamshire
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Helen B C
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 7
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Janeada
I think there could well be a possibility that your Mary Tanner is of 'my' Tanner family.
Joseph Tanner, a soldier with the Royal Staff Corps, was attached to the garrison at Jersey, where he met and married Elizabeth Ramier 14 Nov 1808. Their known children were born on Jersey, Hythe (Kent) and Kendal (Westmoreland).
Joseph was born and raised in Westmoreland and returned there with wife and family when he left the military. As you say, how would a very young girl find her way from Jersey to Westmoreland unless it was with family !
I expect you have calculated Mary's birth year from information given in the census, so if we would need to be able to search records between 1809 and 1815. One daughter was reportedly born on Jersey about 1816, but no record has been found. According to family legend, one son was born on Gibraltar, but his baptism was found in Kent. Perhaps the father was still on Gibraltar when the child was born and thus the story got started 
Do you have any contacts who may have access to Jersey birth/baptismal records ?
I'm really looking forward to hearing from you
Helen
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Janeada
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 68
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Helen,
Thank you for replying to my post. As you supposed I have estimated my Mary Tanner’s date of birth from the census returns and she is quite consistent over the decades but there is no way of knowing if she was mistaken in the age she gave. Mary is my 2x gt. grandmother, her son John Fisher born in 1843 was my grandmother's father.
My files contain quite a bit about Mary from the date of her marriage but absolutely nothing before then. And with the Channel Islands records still mostly on paper the only way to research is to either go there and look for oneself or employ a research agent. Either alternative is costly and with just the one name and a vague date of birth it seemed hopeless although I did try various things on-line found a Tanner family and obtained a will which made them seem very unlikely candidates to be my Mary’s family. So I know that one has to tread carefully.
Would you like to have Mary’s details so far as I know them? I won’t post them on here I can either send them in a PM or we could exchange e-mail addresses (via a PM) which ever you would like to do.
Best wishes,
Janeada
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CLARKE in Furness, Lancashire, Cumberland & Isle of Man, PARK in Furness, Lancashire, CHARNOCK in Furness, Lancashire, ASHBURNER in Furness, Lancashire, FISHER in Westmorland & Lancashire (& Yorkshire), HIRD in Westmorland & Lancashire, JACKSON in Cumberland, SIM in Cumberland, WING in Lincolnshire, COOK in Nottinghamshire
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